2-wheeled or compact tractor?

   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #1  

Flatlandfarmer

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Hi All,

We are buying a 10 acre farm and I'm in the process of researching equipment. I'm a bit of a newbie so I wanted to ask for some input from you all.

Right now, there are four acres in fenced pasture, with the buildings and lawn on one acre of grass. In addition, there are five acres tillable that are currently being rented by a farmer but next season, I'll probably tackle that land too. Right now, thinking that may be 1/2-1.0 acre market garden, an acre or so in hay, and the rest in green manure. I'm trying to be low-impact and minimal tillage. In addition, I do have a day job so I'll only have two, maybe three days a week (plus some time before/after work) to handle this.

Is a 2-wheeled tractor (Grillo G107 or BCS 853) up to the task or am I better off looking to a compact 4-wheeled machine for the sake of efficiency? I'm a middle aged guy is reasonable shape, but don't want to overwhelm myself...too much.

Still deciding on implements that I'll want to get started too. Budget is a bit of a concern (which is part of the reason I liked the idea of a two-wheel tractor) but I don't want to cut corners I'll regret in a year or two.

Thanks.
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #2  
A two wheel tractor requires considerable energy and strength to navigate down the rows, are you up to it? You can plant rows 24" apart. Minimal storage space required. I would only store a two wheel tractor indoors.

Four wheel tractor is less taxing to use. You can cultivate, with a one row or two row cultivator, down 24" rows. Roto-tillers, however, have a minimum width of 42". You can blow or plow snow with a four wheel tractor. Many more implements available for four wheel tractors. I keep my tractor in my garage; others store their tractor outside.

If you decide on a four wheel tractor get one with a Category 1, Three Point Hitch and Four Wheel Drive. Do not get one with a Category 0, Three Point Hitch or just Two Wheel Drive. The most useful tractor option is a Front End Loader and Bucket.

After four crops of green manure over two years, what will you do with this four acres?

Do you have a road to maintain?
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #3  
A two wheel is marginal for most of these uses at best. With your limited time not even a consideration. Also implements are way more expense and you probably will have trouble finding used. What you would like would be a 25hp 4wd with fel. Even used that will be 10k. A nice old ford 8n or similar can usually be found for $2500. Implements are every where for those tractors and can be used on a different tractor as you upgrade. You will get way more done with an old 2wd ford than a 2 wheel walk behind. It's all about what you can afford.
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
A two wheel tractor requires considerable energy and strength to navigate down the rows, are you up to it? You can plant rows 24" apart. Minimal storage space required. I would only store a two wheel tractor indoors.

Four wheel tractor is less taxing to use. You can cultivate, with a one row or two row cultivator, down 24" rows. Roto-tillers, however, have a minimum width of 42". You can blow or plow snow with a four wheel tractor. Many more implements available for four wheel tractors. I keep my tractor in my garage; others store their tractor outside.

If you decide on a four wheel tractor get one with a Category 1, Three Point Hitch and Four Wheel Drive. Do not get one with a Category 0, Three Point Hitch or just Two Wheel Drive. The most useful tractor option is a Front End Loader and Bucket.

After four crops of green manure over two years, what will you do with this four acres?

Do you have a road to maintain?

Thanks!

With the five tillable acres, I'm thinking of keeping one or two acres in hay at any given time, then rotating the other land (basically 3 one acre sub-plots) so that I'm only working one acre of it intensively in any given season. (At least until I figure out what direction I want to head.) Whether I grow more or add to the existing pasture remains to be seen.

No road to maintain, just a driveway and not a huge one. (It's paved.)

It's the "considerable energy" part that makes me cautious about the two-wheeled route. I can probably handle it now and next year too. But I look at equipment as something I want to keep long-term, hence my concerns about whether it'll be too much in a few years. I don't want to beat myself up too much or unnecessarily. At the same time, I'm not opposed to a bit of physical activity. But I reckon there will still be plenty of that either way!
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#5  
A two wheel is marginal for most of these uses at best. With your limited time not even a consideration. Also implements are way more expense and you probably will have trouble finding used. What you would like would be a 25hp 4wd with fel. Even used that will be 10k. A nice old ford 8n or similar can usually be found for $2500. Implements are every where for those tractors and can be used on a different tractor as you upgrade. You will get way more done with an old 2wd ford than a 2 wheel walk behind. It's all about what you can afford.

I don't want to go too deep in debt but you bring up some excellent points and I look at a tractor as an investment. I'm not opposed to older equipment. My concern is, getting something in good enough mechanical condition so that I'm buying a piece of working hardware and not an expensive headache. I haven't looked too deep yet, but I do see John Deere offers 0% financing on new tractors like their 1025R. Although a nice running Ford 8N or similar would definitely be something I'd consider.
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #6  
You can get tillers that are narrower. You can get the Sicma gear drive tiller as narrow as 35 inchs and put it behind a Kubota 2320N narrow tractor that is just 36 inches wide. One good thing about the narrow Kubota's they have the position control on the 3 pt lift that maintains the height of the impliment. I've always wanted that combo to try out. I would say you could get away with rows 45 inches apart with it and stil ride. Kinda cool to think about. No way to do hay with that. But be warned that 1 or 2 acres of hay isn't much and hardly worth fooling with and certainly not worth buying hay equipment. Hardly worth calling someone else to come and do it either.

In my experiance in tilling here on my farm for many years you can "overtill" if you never add humis or grow cover crops. I grow buckwheat and rye grass and till in some straw and grass clippings and fall leaves. I've found the soil just keeps getting better and better and I've not had any issues with pulverized soil or hardpan. I frankly have serious doubts that a light tractor with a tiller weighing a few hunderd pounds is able to make a true "hardpan" like the huge heavy row crop tractors/discs. Try raising some daylillies. They are quick to reproduce and make a nice little cash crop without taking up too much room. My mom uses her B3030 kubota for that.
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #7  
Flatlandfarmer,
I own a BCS 745 and have owned an 850, both with tiller and flail mower. Finally just bought an LS R4041 with FEL. I have a small, organic farm of about 10 acres, 1/2 in cover crop at any one time. Cultivate with a 1950 Allis Chalmers G. My farm is divided into two parts, I call them the "small" side and "big" side. Also have 4 16'x96' hoophouses.
Pencil out where you want the farm to be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, etc. What will be your market? Will you transition to full time farming or part time the whole way? Old tractors can be pretty reliable if you buy with caution and patience. I bought a new one b/c my old JD 520, still usable, was going to need more time and money dedicated to it than I wanted to spend. Down time is lost money. Having said that, old ford 8n's can pull a two bottom plow and disc harrow pretty easy. I don't think they are slow enough to till with, but I've seen it done. Also, can pull a simple 1 row cultivator, mow, etc. I think there are alot of good "newer" options in the 20 yr old category. check out JD 950, 1050, 970 1070. Ford 1710/1720, 1910/1920. Kubota L series L2900 and the like are great machines. 2 Wheel tractors don't replace 4 wheel machines, and definitely will only save you time on smaller tasks i.e. tilling 5-6 beds at a time. I keep mine for the small side of the farm, where we do more hand cultivation (wheel hoe/hand hoe), for intensively spaced crops like lettuce, etc. The BCS also works well in the hoophouses, which only have an 8' high peak.
Give us some info on your budget, maybe we can make some other suggestions. If you look long enough for used, you can usually find what you are looking for.
Tom
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #8  
I am by no means an expert in any of this, but here's my $.02...

As much as I love my old 2 wheeled Gravely 5465 walk behind (10hp Kohler) I am glad that I finally made the jump to my Deere 3520 (35 hp 4WD hydrostat). I only have 5 acres and I'm only planting small gardens, but I do have a 400' gravel driveway to maintain as well as woods that I want to clear the brush out of. The Gravely still has a place here, but it's the Deere that I'm really working with now.

You mention the Deere 1025R. I would probably go bigger than that if I could afford it. When I first started considering getting some sort of 4 wheeled tractor about a year ago, the first thing I found that I really liked was a used Deere 2305 which is about the same tractor as the 1025. It was pretty cool with a mid-mount mower, 3 point hitch and a front end loader and I drooled over it (as I was saving money) before the dealership sold it. I really started thinking about what I wanted to with the tractor (primarily work in the woods clearing brush) and decided that I needed to step it up a notch. So I started looking at the 2x20 series Deere tractors. One of the deciding factors was that the Deere salesman mentioned that size and up would give me a "real 3 pt. hitch." I was confused by this and asked what he meant. He explained that even though the 3 pt. on the 2305/1025 tractors was a category 1 hitch that the tractor sat too low to the ground to really make use of ground engaging implements. You could get them in the ground, but the hitch wouldn't lift them high enough in many cases to transport them. I found a nice used 2520 tractor with all the bells and whistles and then, FINALLY, found my 3520. So now I have a tractor that is MUCH larger than the original one that I was interested in and I'm super happy with it!! About a week after I got it, I borrowed a box blade from a buddy of mine and spread 50 tons of gravel in just a couple of hours! Doing that with my Gravely would have been a multi-day job for me, not to mention I wouldn't have been able to prep the original surface as well prior to getting the gravel.

I guess the point of all of my rambling is that you will probably really appreciate a 4 wheel tractor on a place your size. It will save you considerable time and effort (not to mention back pain!) over using a 2 wheel tractor. Get the best one you can afford. Nothing wrong with an old 8N or 9N for what you want. Or even an old Kubota. My initial thought (prior to stumbling on the 2305) was to get an older, mid-80's Kubota 4WD. Those old tractors are pretty rugged and simple to work on. None of the electronics that are on my Deere. Don't feel like you HAVE to buy something NOW - shop around and you will eventually find the right tractor for you.

GOOD LUCK!!
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #9  
Hmmm, a 2 wheel or 4 wheel on 10 acres,,, while the 2 wheelers are very competent and versatile for me 10 acres would be to much ground to cover, and a 4 wheel could be cumbersome and heavy for some tasks. So get both!
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Thanks for all the input. As for budget, I guess $10k and maybe up to $15k (delivered) is feasible, if it's a good, solid piece of tractor that will last me. The consensus seems to be 4 wheels and I'm agreeing at this point. (A two-wheeled may be a nice new toy in a few years.) I think the four-wheeled route will give me at lot more flexibility to grow with and will save a bit of back pain as mark02tj points out.

In general terms, I'm looking for something that can mow, disc, and possibly be fit with a front-end loader. (I originally wasn't thinking I wanted one but a friend told me they are quite versatile, so it's something I'm now considering.) I wouldn't mind a tractor where I can handle basic repairs, but I make no claims to being a mechanic so anything complex will need to be outsourced. Illinois seems to be Deere country so I know service and parts on that brand are readily available locally. It's an obstacle that I know can be addressed, but currently some of the pasture has 54" gates (PVC fencing) so that might need to be changed to fit anything with greater width.
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #11  
Start checkin' CraigsList! It's time to buy a tractor!! :laughing:

I want to reiterate - BE PICKY when you're shopping!! Look at a lot of them so when the right one comes along, you'll know it. I know that I was in kind of a hurry when I first started looking, but it was about 7 months from the time I started looking until I actually bought one. I scoured CraigsList a couple of times a day. You are going to learn all sorts of stuff about these small tractors!!

If you want to look at new, be sure to visit all of the dealers of the various brands. Dealer support is super important. The JD dealer I bought my 3520 from is only about 2 miles from my house and they have a good reputation. But also check out Kubota, Kioti, Mahindra, etc.

The final "rule" is this - once you buy something, you MUST post pictures here for the rest of us to see!! :)
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #12  
EBay is another source for used tractors.

There are 82 tractors for sale on eBay within 200 miles of zip code 60450:

Tractor in Tractors | eBay
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #13  
I have had lots of equipment on my farm experimenting with things that I think I'll need, ended up buying/selling/trading through quite a bit of items... that wasted time and money. Now I have what I consider an ideal setup, I have a little tractor (kubota l175 2wd) that I paid $1200 for, it is mainly my overgrown lawn mower but due to the minimal amount of diesel fuel it uses has already paid for itself... On a farm do NOT underestimate the fuel costs, they are my largest expense by far (we're organic btw)... That tractor has the ability to do much more than mow grass with a 3 point finish mower (btw, do yourself a favor and get one of those instead of a belly mower, they tend to hang up on everything). I won't dare post the fuel cost of operating that little kubota, it's ridiculously low, but suffice to say it's about 1/10th that of a big gas riding mower... THEN, we had to get a tractor that would pull a plow and do more work, so I got a well used but good running Massey Ferguson 65 diesel for $2,500. The kubota wouldn't pull a plow very well, er, at all... Pulling a plow is ALL about weight/traction, my stepfather tried with his 4x4 40 horsepower hydrostatic massey with the industrial type tires on it, it worked but just barely... my big 65 with ag tires yanks a moldboard plow like it doesn't exist, literally at an idle in VERY tough virgin ground... 4x4 is nice but not necessary unless you're really light weight or working in really bad mud, however a differential lock is a MUST, the little kubota has no differential lock but does well enough as long as I don't mow on any steep hills until after the dew has burned off or not too soon after a rain... Tire chains would help, but I ride on pavement alot so... not interested in tire chains right now... I picked up a troy bilt horse tiller for just tilling/cultivating... if you're talking about just tilling, it's hard to beat an old 4 speed horse... Lastly, I got a Gravely L8 with bush hog and rotary plow for the in between work... some might think all those things are overkill, but they're not, they each fill a niche and do so much better than trying a one size fits all approach, plus... just machines I got everything for under 5 grand, add the impements for the 'real' tractors and we're still under 7 grand... everything came from craigslist, sometimes I might have drove a couple hours one way for a good deal, but it was always worth it.

My advice to someone just starting out (we're not that far ahead of you, only a few years in on the farm) get the bigger tractor first and a decent "normal" tiller, buy a good used one and do lots of research... a leaky tractor is an expensive tractor to operate and time consuming to fix, check the hydraulic lift with something on it, NOT empty (wonder how I know that?). Get a plow and disc harrows, they will do a fine job, you don't want your soil turned into a powder anyhow, anything you need finer, use the normal garden tiller for until you get something better...

I have owned a BCS, found the parts to be prohibitively expensive so I sent it to a new home. That was really my only complaint though, it was a well made and super nice machine, but I kinda like the old gravely and later on down the road you can re-power it with a big honda engine to have a truly 'nice' machine...

Don't get in a rush and spend money that you don't absolutely have to, something will pop up on craigslist and you'll wish you had the money then! Buy decent things and use them but don't abuse them and they'll last, our first couple of years I was spending TONS of money maintaining homeowner grade equipment plus all the downtime and frustration...

I had a 3 point tiller for the big tractor btw... it was honestly kinda useless, sure I used it, but I still had to have a 'small' tiller and for the money that it cost it didn't save me that much time/effort, I sent it on it's way as well...

Good luck!
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
This is all extremely helpful. Thank you! We don't move in until June so I'm starting to research this now figuring that gives me a little time to get it right. Not a mad rush at present but, come July, I'm guessing the grass will grow whether I have a tractor to cut it or not.

wyndsurfr, I was wondering about the mower question re: belly vs. 3-point hitch. I like the idea of the latter and what you say makes sense, but my one concern was maneuverability since we have about four acres in fenced pasture. Do you find this to be an issue?

Also, am I making a mistake trying to get one "do-all" tractor that can cut the grass in the lawn & fenced pasture while also wanting a machine that can till five acres without choking?
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #15  
Well, it depends really... you want a front end loader I saw, that is going to be a HUGE pain in the butt for mowing. Your screen name leads me to believe you are in the flat lands haha (I should be a detective huh?), so you may not have the same challenges that I face living in the mountains... however, there are things that a larger tractor will do that a smaller one absolutely will not... With small tractors 4x4 is really nice, for me I don't even need 4x4 on my larger massey, I mentioned the little kubota without a differential lock will sometimes take a slide down a hill while I'm mowing though... I'd say a Diff lock would be on the top of my list when I replace it. The other thing to consider is that while you would double your maintenance costs by having two tractors, if you are going to try farming for a living and a tractor is essential to your plan, having a second tractor is really nice... If I were you I would seriously consider a small tractor in really good condition with no loader and at least a 5 ft. 3 point finish mower for my "lawn mower", trust me, it'll save you money if you can get a good deal on it... I was spending a TON on fuel for just mowing our grass and it sounds like we have about the same amount to mow. My little kubota is a 2 cylinder 18 h.p. and is quite surprising in what it will do..

your specific question of maneuverability, I would assume a belly mower would be more maneuverable than a 3 point, my stepfather has a belly mower for his tractor I referenced in my earlier comment and he curses it constantly, it's a bit of a pain to remove and he removes it quite often... Oh, and, if you go with a 3 point mower, either buy a rear discharge or convert the side discharge to rear (I did this and it worked just fine)... With a side discharge, if you let the grass get away from you, you will lay out BIG rows of grass (kinda like when they prepare hay for bailing) and you will constantly fight and choke on those over and over again (unles you actually have a hay bailer and can bail it!)... Last year it rained so much that I couldn't mow because of the mud as often as I would have liked and had to constantly fight the big rows of clippings I left, so I cut the back off of my mower, removed the little circular blade chutes (if you see under one, you'll see what I mean) and welded part of the back over the side discharge hole... works perfectly! Side discharge mowers are MUCH cheaper than rear discharge, but it works just fine doing what I did... Now when I mow, it scatters the clippings behind me in a 5-7 ft. area and they don't pile up, plus I can mow a little bit taller/wetter grass without slipping the belts on the mower....

Ultimately, your particular piece of land will determine what you need to do, for us though I found having a big tractor for big work (such as plowing/tilling) and having the small tractor for mainly grass mowing and light duty bush hogging has been the way to go... I recently got another 2 wheeled tractor (after selling the bcs last year) because I put my big tractor into a place that I shouldn't have and got a flat... the gravely cost less than the tire I busted, so I figure (eek) the gravely can be a sacrificial thing, I'll take it as easy as I can on it, but for the price, I'd rather lose it than put another tire on my massey... Your land may be such that you don't need a 2 wheeled tractor at all, but I have creek banks to clean up alongside and the beavers like to chew stumps to little tire spears out there haha...

so, In my opinion, yeah I think it would be a mistake to get one tractor to do it all... I think if you spend wisely and wait for the right deal you can come out like I did with some decent cheap machines, I would get a nicer small tractor than a big tractor though, you'll be using it quite a bit more if you're mowing, and at least around here, I find big old farm tractors all the time with loaders even in the 2,000-3,500 range, just check them out very well, tires are expensive and if they need rims too (from putting calcium in the tubes) then you're looking at around 2 grand just for tires/rims and remember about leaks, most old used tractors will leak a little but if they're leaking alot that adds up from all that money pouring out on the ground!

If you're doing this on a serious budget like us, paying a shop to work on a tractor is out of the question, most places around here want $160-$180 per hour to work on your machine, I'm a pretty good mechanic but you don't really have to be as long as you don't get too new/fancy with your tractors, a good real factory service manual (you're gonna pay 80 bucks or more for one) and even a little bit of mechanical skill (plus awesome forum help like here) will carry you a long way.

I hope that helped some, I wish I had learned these things at the first, would have saved me alot of hassels for sure! Grass mowing is probably my number one job here, that and weeding our blueberry orchard (organic so I can't spray)... With the ground you described, depending on your location, you may be in the same situation, if so, then a nice small fuel efficient diesel machine will be great for your chores...

On a side note, my massey 65 diesel seems to be a VERY fuel efficient machine for its size, most guys who own one agree that theirs just sips fuel also... nothing iike my kubota, but the few times I have had to use the massey with the finish mower, I was impressed... The 18 h.p. kubota will go as fast as the finish mower can mow the grass without choking the engine out so for us, that critter is perfect... I can mow in Hi-2 (or 6th gear) and move pretty darn quick... Not as fast as some of the fancy zero turn mowers I've seen, but still as quick as I need to...

*edited*

I wanted to add, I start and use my Massey every few weeks (unless it's during plowing season like now), my kubota gets used every couple of days at least, that's why I said to get a little nicer small one as at least for me, I use it quite a bit more... I could put a loader on the massey and it would be a little bit of a pain to use it, but it would be fine, If i put a loader on the kubota I know I would curse it all the time for being in the way... Also, while I LOVE diesel, the massey could honestly be a gasoline tractor and be fine since I don't use it often enough for fuel to be a huge issue, so if you're getting a couple of tractors, the big one for the heavy work don't pass on a great deal for a gasoline one... the plus side is, if it gets really cold where you live, that one will start in the cold much easier!
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #16  
Whoops, reading my first comment, I made a typo.... I would get the SMALL tractor first, and then look for a big one (of course snatch something that is a good deal for sure big or small)... My stepfather has a fairly compact 40 h.p. massey hydro drive tractor with 4x4 and it will not do 1/4 of the work that my ancient 2wd massey 65 will do, with tractors and acutal work like pulling things or moving things, weight is your friend...

anyhow, if you get the small tractor and some implements for it (like 4 ft. bush hog, 5 ft. finish mower, etc...) and then you find the big tractor later, your big tractor can use all the implements for the small one and you can take your time finding implements for the big one (like a big bush hog, or haying equipment, etc...) If you really need some plowing done right away that the smaller one can't handle, start asking around and hire it out until you can find the right deal on a bigger machine... That small tractor will start paying for itself immediately though. It won't handle ALL of your lawn mowing needs, I'd recommend a good push mower and buy a ridiculously expensive weed eater... With all those fence lines you're gonna need it!!! I have a Stihl FS-250 and while it did cost over 500 bucks, I'd buy it again in a heartbeat. Best 500 dollars I ever spent, and I can't repeat it enough, we are NOT wealthy, we are actually quite poor, but I'm able to come up with some cash when we need to...

from what you described, you're gonna be dealing with grass quite often, so get good equipment for that, you'll be glad you did.
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #17  
All of the info. above is very good and should be considered. One thing that nobody has pointed out.......you ain't gettin any younger and a two wheel will become heavier as you get older. Also.......and more important...a 4 wheel tractor is fun and you will enjoy the experience everytime you go out to do something on the farm. :thumbsup:
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #18  
jerrybob makes a great point! That is exactly the reason I got my nice old L8 (pics in one of my threads on here)... The old fella who maintained it for years had it slip out of gear going up his driveway (thank god the pto was turned off) and it ran completely over him backwards!!! If you're new to trators of any kind, please please please heed this warning... Those machines do not care about you, they do not even know you exist. If you get caught in a PTO it will keep flopping you around until someone else turns the machine off or it will run you over and keep on going until it hits something that it can't move and then just dig till it runs out of fuel... that said, tractors are fun :)
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor? #19  
I wanted to add to flatlandfarmer, you will probably be looking at all the same equipment that I was for a small acreage farm, I had one of those tow behind a 4 wheeler bush hog things for a while, and it was decent, the machine worked a little better than I thought it would, but it was absolutely hard on my ATV, since I have a very nice ATV, it wasn't worth trashing it to use the pull behind mower.... 4 wheelers aren't really meant to go that slow all the time, add that to the fact that it vibrated my machine in ways I don't think it was intended to be vibrated... I know that's a little off topic, but something I thought was worth mentioning.... Most of that equipment to use behind an atv does work, but unless you have a cheap 4 wheeler that you don't mind trashing, then don't work it that hard :)
 
   / 2-wheeled or compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
jerrybob- Actually my wife has pointed out I'm not getting any younger. Repeatedly.

wyndsurf- It does sound like I'm following a similar track as you did. Still debating the one tractor v. two tractor idea. Someone offered to sell me a JDX540 to handle the grass but that'd be way to small to handle any other tasks I have planned. Starting with a "small" tractor might make sense (like your Kubota, which isn't exactly small compared to some options) and then figuring out what I want with something a bit bigger. On the other hand, if one tractor can do it all, more budget can go to one machine than splitting it up into two. I'll be doing a bit of browsing over the next few weeks. I'm sure the right machine will appear.

As for a general question, I know there's not a simple answer to this, but when is old too "old" for a tractor?
 

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