231s hydraulic problems

donhartman · May 4, 2015

I have a Massey Ferguson 231s tractor that I have had for a few years now . Since owning it the hydraulics have never worked right . I initially changed the filter and the fluid and also rinsed and cleaned the sump all the way back to the differential and PTO shaft cavity . My point is it is clean . I have rebuilt the factory pump and upon putting it back in I had the same problem as prior to the rebuild . At the time of the rebuild I again replaced the hydraulic fluid . The feeling I was getting talking to people is that it WAS the control valve ! Well I went ahead and bought a complete pump . Put it in this past weekend and I still have the same issue !

The problem is in position mode ...lift arms creep up or down ...requiring CONSTANT adjustment to keep in one position .

I need some help ! My factory manual is not worth a crap on showing anything that can be understood with the underbelly of the lift cover . Also AGCO parts book shows nothing for the linkage on this lift cover .The factory manual mentions a few tools that not event the nearest dealer knows what they are ! What can be wrong ?

My original post .

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../246480-massey-3-point-hydraulics-issues.html

Thanks
I'm a huge Massey fan but at this point I could be swayed .

Don

donhartman · May 4, 2015

Has anyone rebuilt there lift cover and made a pictorial or video of it ?

Don

HomesteaderMN · May 7, 2015

Wish I had some help for you. Good luck.

walter boatwright · May 7, 2015

If your tractor has draft control make sure its all the way up. The draft control will mess you up.

redman135 · May 8, 2015

It sounds like one of 2 things. Your position/draught linkages are out of adjustment or you are running in "pressure control" mode. If you have preassure control on your hydraulics it will be marked on the same half as the position control.

donhartman · May 8, 2015

walter boatwright said:
If your tractor has draft control make sure its all the way up. The draft control will mess you up.

Yup ! I have it all the way back when I'm having issues ! I do invoke the draft control as a work around . But I really need/want to fix this .

donhartman · May 8, 2015

redman135 said:
It sounds like one of 2 things. Your position/draught linkages are out of adjustment or you are running in "pressure control" mode. If you have preassure control on your hydraulics it will be marked on the same half as the position control.

Since I have a brand new pump with control valve I'm leaning toward the linkage also !

I'm not sure about that presure control mode ! I don't have anything to that effect in my manual ! I have a continuous pumping . You move it to that position when using the draft control .

Don

JWR · May 13, 2015

Wow Don, you've got a worrisome issue there. I have a 2011 MF 2660 but I am told the "Ferguson System" is common to most of the gray and red machines. You have already rebuilt or replaced darn near everything one would think could cause such a problem. I'll make a few points hoping to help out.
1) Just to confirm you are having position creep BOTH up and down, right ? That's critical because if it were down only I'd be thinking of possible bad/worn seals on the internal lift cylinder.
2) How many hours & what year is it? That won't solve anything but may cause me to think a bit differently.
3) Does yours have something called "standpipe O-rings?" Mine has what is called a standpipe in the chassis up under the seat with a small metal cover over it. I was told that the O-rings on the standpipe can be split and leaking which can cause 3pt lift problems.
4) A not very well understood fact about MF lift systems is that the Draft lever being all the way up does NOT totally put the Draft control out of the picture. It simply desensitizes the lift to Draft inputs. For example, if I use the upper hole of the 3 choices for my top link, the 3pt lift only sometimes lifts a 1500lb bush hog (!) Using the lower hole it is fine. The reason is that if your load on the top link is heavy enough the Draft control gets involved without your intent. MF actually sells a kit to preclude this (amounts to a solid link to the frame for the top link and prevents the Draft spring being involved.)
5) Certainly a very experienced MF mechanic is worth his weight in gold in one of these tough problems. Don't necessarily have to take the tractor to them, just ask for access to the most senior mechanic and pose the question: "What can cause chronic position creep both up and down?" Got to be some of those around.

I have no idea what a "pressure control mode" is. That comment from someone else puzzles me.

Good Luck!

donhartman · May 13, 2015

Yes the lift creeps up or down depending on it position !

The tractor has less that 500 hours .

I really wish I could find one of them worth their weight in GOLD Massey mechanics . I really would like to get this right . Truth be told I really like the tractor . It is a good size and shape ....it is very fuel efficient ! Only negative is that it is a bit loud compared to other comparable tractors .

There was a fellow "hutch" that was here for awhile , not seen him though in some time .

Thanks
Don

shona13 · May 13, 2015

G'day Donhartman .
Yes i am here just that i don,t have the same amount of "Computer time "
So you have adjusted the lift cover as per manual!!.Installed the lift cover !
Fit something heavy on the three point linkage By Three point linkage I mean say a rotary hoe,snow blower or a utility carryall etc etc something that will put weight on the Top link.
Ensure the draft lever is all the way into the UP position and with the right hand sideplate removed so that you can see what is going on ,slowly raise and lower the hydraulics with the POSITION control lever and watch the Control valve carefully,if all is good the control valve will when the lever is moved say towards the UP position a little bit the valve will move then return to a neutral position that is it will return to a position that it will hold the load and no more.
If you find that when you move the lever towards lift and the control valve prematurely moves to the Neutral position IE BEFORE THE LINKAGE LIFTS THE IMPLEMENT carefully put your hand in there and move the control lever forcing the pump to lift if you like, if you get a positive response the problem is in the draft linkage inside the toplink,there is a sensing rod in there that mechanically influences the control valve via the lever, to eliminate this from the system connect a heavy chain from the implement toplink to the tractor top pin the pin is the long articulated pin that goes all the way through the holes on the rear axle housing ,use either a soft sling or a chain capable of lifting say one/2 tonnes (keep children and adults clear of the area just in case your Temporary lifting sling/chain fails) ,if the implement then lifts all the way up you will have to adjust the draft link .
Let me know how you go and we will go from there.
There are a few other things I have not mentioned but if you do this then feed back the findings I will go from there .

I have never had a Massey Tractor that I could not fix !!!.

Happy Days.
Hutch.