2320-Got Stuck Today!

[Pushing_Tin]

I have 5 acres where my wife and I are building a house. There are about a dozen old Douglas Fir stumps that were cut about 30 years ago, and they are huge! Today I was digging at one for about 15 mintues going back and forth and ramming into it to loosen it. I soon realized that I couldn't move at all. The whole front axle was under the mud. I tried pulling it out with my truck but it wouldn't even budge. So I dug out the wheels and laid several large logs in front of the bucket so I could scissor my way out with the bucket. It took me about an hour and a half to finally get it out. I was only able to take a few pictures because the batteries in my camera were dead.

 

[Birdmayon]

two things (not trying to be an @ss at, all just trying to help). Not sure how hard you're ramming with your loader but that's a good way to twist it up. Second, put some weight on the rear, not sure it woulda helped here cause that looks like pretty stick mud and your treads are filled, but you'll have better traction, and it'll be alot safer when you're playing with your loader.

 

[B8FISH]

Yep--the rammin' with loader comment had me worried too! If you've got a lot of stumps to dig up a toothbar may help rip through the roots and stuff better than the bucket alone.

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Well the tires have ballast, would you suggest putting more weight back there? This is my first tractor and ramming the stump probably isn't a real good idea.

 

[orlo]

Pushing:

Yes, I wouldn't advise anything other than a light push with the loader. No running starts against a known fixed object...

Regarding ballast. Yes, even with loaded tires if your using the loader you should use rear ballast to help even things out and take some weight off the front tires when the bucket is loaded. (Loaded tires don't do this).
The loader manual will recommend what weight to use.

The extra weight usually will help with traction a lot also.

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Pushing:

Yes, I wouldn't advise anything other than a light push with the loader. No running starts against a known fixed object...

Regarding ballast. Yes, even with loaded tires if your using the loader you should use rear ballast to help even things out and take some weight off the front tires when the bucket is loaded. (Loaded tires don't do this).
The loader manual will recommend what weight to use.

The extra weight usually will help with traction a lot also.

Well I took about 30 running starts at the stump, it was the only was to loosen it up in the ground so I could dig it out. Wish I had a backhoe!

 

[jdl]

Well I took about 30 running starts at the stump, it was the only was to loosen it up in the ground so I could dig it out. Wish I had a backhoe!

Only 30 running starts hmmm? You need a skidsteer my friend.

 

[RalphVa]

I agree re the running starts. Pushing the FEL into the stump and trying to do a curl would work better than running at it.

Agree also that you need something on the 3ph. A brush hog hangs out a long ways back there but is a lot of weight because it sticks out a long ways and gives some leverage. Put SOMETHING back there, even if just a light back blade or other implement. Most compact thing for weight is a ballast box (I don't have one).

Why couldn't you lower the FEL with lip pointing down and curl it up to get the front wheels out? That plus if you'd had something on the back to give the rear wheels more tractor probably would have gotten you out. Did you try your differential lock? I've had the wheels spin many times. Stopping and hitting the differential lock got me out every time.

Ralph

 

[Pushing_Tin]

I agree re the running starts. Pushing the FEL into the stump and trying to do a curl would work better than running at it.

Agree also that you need something on the 3ph. A brush hog hangs out a long ways back there but is a lot of weight because it sticks out a long ways and gives some leverage. Put SOMETHING back there, even if just a light back blade or other implement. Most compact thing for weight is a ballast box (I don't have one).

Why couldn't you lower the FEL with lip pointing down and curl it up to get the front wheels out? That plus if you'd had something on the back to give the rear wheels more tractor probably would have gotten you out. Did you try your differential lock? I've had the wheels spin many times. Stopping and hitting the differential lock got me out every time.

Ralph

The FEL is no match for these old fir stumps. Some of them weigh more than 1 ton, and the FEL just groans as it's just not strong enough to move it. That's why I was ramming into it, to loosen it up and then dig around it, to hopefully get it out.

The problem with using the FEL to get out was that there was a large deep area in front of the stump where I had been digging, so there was nothing to push against to get out. Plus the mud was like clay and had sucked the front end down. Even my 4x4 truck pulling, with the tractor in gear at WOT couldn't budge it. That's why I eventually laid large logs across the hole and used those to push off with the bucket. Once I got the front wheels up high I filled the hole in with gravel and sticks, then managed to get free.

 

[dixie306]

Your not stuck, you just think you are, next time just twist it out with a chain, take a heavy chain, attach it to the OUTSIDE of the rear wheel and the other end to a tree, put the tractor in reverse then VERY gently ease the thottle forward, the chain will start twisting and pull you backwards. DO NOT attach the chain to the inside around the axle. I've done this a bunch over the years.

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Your not stuck, you just think you are, next time just twist it out with a chain, take a heavy chain, attach it to the OUTSIDE of the rear wheel and the other end to a tree, put the tractor in reverse then VERY gently ease the thottle forward, the chain will start twisting and pull you backwards. DO NOT attach the chain to the inside around the axle. I've done this a bunch over the years.

I don't understand, how do you attach it to the outside?

 

[AKfish]

I've seen chains used on the axle of large, ag-type machines that the chain can twist around and as it shortens up, will pull the tractor out. But, you need that axle stickin' out beyond the rim.

Ag machines have longer axles for moving the wheel in-out or mounting another tire == dual rear wheels.

Also, if you don't have a rear fender in the way; you can chain a short piece of log to the bottom of your tire and it will lift you out of some bad spots, too.

Like others, the idea of hittin' that stump with your loader made me cringe and squirm in my seat... The money you'll spend replacin' your FEL could be used to rent a good-sized track hoe (excavator) with thumb to yard those stumps out.

Gotta say -- lookin' at your pics -- I'd sure like to have some soft mud to play in, too! Still have plenty of snow and frozen ground here.

Best of luck with your home site projects.

AKfish

 

[johnnydel29]

Based on what I am hearing and from what I saw from the pics, I would save yourself fuel, wear and tear on your machine and pay someone 400 bucks for the day to run a dozer and exavator to pull those stumps. When you see those machines in action, you'll realize that this is the right thing to do.

I was in a similar situation when we bought our lot - thinking I can get a head start by clearing it w/ my brand new 2305, instead I ended up damaging the trans hydro fan and beating on the the loader & machine. Then, the dozer and exavator came through and the lot was cleared in 2 hours.

I know what you are trying to accomplish may seem fun, but it may end up costing you a lot of time, money and possible headaches.

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Based on what I am hearing and from what I saw from the pics, I would save yourself fuel, wear and tear on your machine and pay someone 400 bucks for the day to run a dozer and exavator to pull those stumps. When you see those machines in action, you'll realize that this is the right thing to do.

I was in a similar situation when we bought our lot - thinking I can get a head start by clearing it w/ my brand new 2305, instead I ended up damaging the trans hydro fan and beating on the the loader & machine. Then, the dozer and exavator came through and the lot was cleared in 2 hours.

I know what you are trying to accomplish may seem fun, but it may end up costing you a lot of time, money and possible headaches.

Good thoughts from all of you. I think you're right about just hiring somebody or renting the proper equipment, maybe just a large stump grinder. I'll have to wait a few months until it dries out though. Hope I didn't damage my tractor! If I did damgage the FEL, is it obvious?

 

[AKfish]

Park your tractor on a nice level spot --- paved street or concrete pad i.e. garage.

Level up your bucket and float it to the concrete or asphalt surface. Does the bucket edge touch the surface of the pad all along the cutting edge; evenly? Or is one edge just a tad higher than the other side of the bucket? (The surface of the road or garage pad can be uneven and this might make the cutting edge of your bucket appear out of kilter, so a note of caution.)

Slowly lift up the bucket. Does the bucket lift from both loader arms at more or les the same time? Or does one loader arm jump-engage just slightly before the other arm?

If you can answer a definite Yes to both questions -- you just might very well have a "tweaked" front end loader.

Best of luck.

AKfish

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Park your tractor on a nice level spot --- paved street or concrete pad i.e. garage.

Level up your bucket and float it to the concrete or asphalt surface. Does the bucket edge touch the surface of the pad all along the cutting edge; evenly? Or is one edge just a tad higher than the other side of the bucket? (The surface of the road or garage pad can be uneven and this might make the cutting edge of your bucket appear out of kilter, so a note of caution.)

Slowly lift up the bucket. Does the bucket lift from both loader arms at more or les the same time? Or does one loader arm jump-engage just slightly before the other arm?

If you can answer a definite Yes to both questions -- you just might very well have a "tweaked" front end loader.

Best of luck.

AKfish

Thanks fish, the tractor is out at the property, so I won't be able to test it until tomorrow. If it is damaged what does a repair entail?

 

[AKfish]

First off... if you had seriously damaged your FEL -- you wouldn't be wondering if there was a problem! You'd know it 'cause your loader would be seriously outta kilter. One arm would be significantly higher or skewed off to the left or right of the other arm. As in BENT!

Generally, you can see the nature of the problem by lookin' at the bucket. If it's got a big honkin' dent in it some place or it's got a saggy curve in the cutting edge -- odds are high that there might be a loader arm or cylinder that's had some damage as well.

By the very nature of working any piece of equipment - things get a bit out of alignment and/or worn. Same thing with your loader. It's not always gonna lift in a synchronous fashion. One hydraulic cylinder may wear out and loose some pressure or even begin leaking. That will make the loader arms out of sync with each other. That's not the end of the world. And it doesn't mean that you have to replace the loader or even involve major repairs, necessarily. (Now, if a cylinder is really off par (weak) or leaking badly, you'll need to rebuild it.)

If you'll dig into your owner's manual, there should be a section on adjusting your loader. If things are just a wee bit out of alignment --- adjusting the loader mounts can make things good again.

Best of luck.

AKfish

 

[VABlue]

Ramming the target has been discussed, but one other thing I saw was the WOT when trying to pull out of the mud. While this is no where near the seriousness of ramming, there's no need for a WOT in that situation. You're already getting full hydro pressure when that diesel is idling, and no more as you open up the throttle. Yeah, more revs will keep you from bogging down the engine when you need more power, but I suspect the wheels were spinning freely well before you would have needed the extra oomph. With my 2305 I've found the power range to be right around 2K RPM - no more bogging under load and still moves fast enough. You're 2320 should be about the same given they have the same engine.

Just a note on engine wear and fuel consumption...

 

[AKfish]

VABlue -- good point.... most uses for a tractor involve torque --- power to move mass.

Generally, diesel engines develop the most torque at several hundred rpm's less than WOT.

I recall that on my old Yanmar powered JD 970, the peak torque rpm was around 1900. So, if I was gonna be pullin' my Landpride ripper, I'd set the throttle at 2,000 with no load. So, that as soon as the ripper hit the ground, it'd likely drop a 100 or so rpm and settle in right at the "sweet spot" on the torque curve.

AKfish

 

[Pushing_Tin]

Thanks for the feedback guys, your advice is appreciated. Here is the update. The FEL is tweaked, it's about 3/4 of an inch higher on the left side, and it touches down early on the right side. I used the tractor quite a bit today and it didn't seem to effect it as far as I could tell. The ground dried out quite a bit so I tackled the stump again....I didn't ram it this time, I took my shovel and dug all around it so it would be looser and I could get the FEL under more of it. It only took about 5 minutes and I got it out, and I didn't get stuck! Here are pics taken a few hours ago.