240 or 120 Volt?

[LD1]

I'm going to add something here that always bugs me. People refer to their electrical service as being 110V or 220V (or even worse as a 120V/220V service...it CANNOT be 120V/220V) but it isn't, it's 120V/240V, and here's the reason why.
Your basic voltage control at substations, regulators etc is always based on 120 volts. You might have a substation with a 72,000V or 138,000V line feeding it and the transformer might be putting out 25,000V but when we adjust the transformer for output voltage, it's ALWAYS done based on 120V. At the substation transformer, that might be set at 123 or 124 volts to offset voltage drop through the power lines but down the line residential voltage should ideally be 120V to neutral/ground and 240V phase to phase (single phase power).

Yep, it does get very confusing indeed for the average person.

Currently, I hear 3 main ones: 110/220 115/230 and 120/240

110/220 was old terminology.

115/230 is typically what appliances and stuff are rated to. +/-10%

120/240 is what the power companies actually deliver +/-5%

So your appliances @ 115+/-10% should be good from about 104v up to about 125v. This should cover you on the power companies +/-5% as well as voltage drops within the houses branch circuits themselves:thumbsup:

But to refer to it as 120/240 is the most correct way.

 

[chopped]

Mace very informative.We do tend to change some of the reality sometims of description.I personally had never thought much on it.. Just figured there was a swing in the voltage tolerances..

 

[czechsonofagun]

Mace very informative.We do tend to change some of the reality sometims of description.I personally had never thought much on it.. Just figured there was a swing in the voltage tolerances..

Yes, voltage and frequency both.

 

[grsthegreat]

Mace, is that 120/240 Canadian :licking: :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Mace Canute]

Mace, is that 120/240 Canadian :licking: :laughing: :laughing:

:laughing:

 

[Travelover]

Mace, is that 120/240 Canadian :licking: :laughing: :laughing:

Yes, and it is "eh C"

 

[Mace Canute]

Ohhhhh that's sooo bad! :laughing:


(But...I like it! )

 

[vsumoski]

Mace,

Get them going...

Tell us what you pay per KiloWattHour.

I know that several years ago Alberta electricty was almost free compared to Pennsylvania.

 

[Mace Canute]

Ok, from my last electric bill:

I have a basic monthly charge of $19.28.

My consumption cost is $0.1061 per Kwh and I was billed for 393 kwh over a 29 day period...total electrical charges were $60.98.

Then I had a 10% Municipal Surcharge Tax of $6.10 which goes to the municipality I live in (City of Saskatoon) and 5% GST (Goods and Services Tax) which was $3.05. Total bill was $70.13.

 

[vsumoski]

Maybe it was a lot more years ago than I remember, or Alberta has a much lower rate.
Your rate is higher than Pennsy!

 

[grsthegreat]

Ok, from my last electric bill:

I have a basic monthly charge of $19.28.

My consumption cost is $0.1061 per Kwh and I was billed for 393 kwh over a 29 day period...total electrical charges were $60.98.

Then I had a 10% Municipal Surcharge Tax of $6.10 which goes to the municipality I live in (City of Saskatoon) and 5% GST (Goods and Services Tax) which was $3.05. Total bill was $70.13.

Thats alot...we pay $.06 / KWH....mace your getting ripped off hehe

You need to live in the dark more.

Funny thing is, i was watching a DVD on the making of "the quiet men" the other night. Aparently the village in Ireland that they filmed the movie had just gotten electricity the week before (1950's mind you) and there was partying in the street. Then the locals found out that they have to pay for the electricity, and they wanted it removed. They got along just fine without it.

 

[BobRip]

The 240V hookup uses half the amperage and since watts equals ohms times amps times amps, using 240V gives you less wattage lost in the wiring to the heater...1/2 the amps and 1/4 the watts. It also reduces voltage drop since volts is amps time ohms...1/2 the amps and 1/2 the voltage drop which means slightly more output from the heater. Using 240V also balances the load on your service, using 120 might add load to the heavier loaded hot leg or it might add load to the lighter loaded hot leg..without an amp meter, you probably won't know. Balanced loads are always better. As far as cost, you pay by the watts used regardless of 120V or 240V so not having the higher watts load in the wire itself would mean you are getting more heat where you want it and less where you don't want it. Without actually doing the math, I'm not sure if using the 240V would save you money overall on your power bill, but it definitely is more efficient! Using 240V might allow you to use a smaller (less expensive) gauge conductor when wiring it up.

What you say about the losses is true, but those losses turn into heat which is the same thing you are trying to produce, so they are not losses. Of course the losses may not all be in the area you are trying to heat.

 

[BobRip]

You are mostly correct, except the first line. Watts does NOT equal ohms times amps times amps. Watts is simply volts times amps.

Not correct. Power can be calculate several ways
P = V X I
P = I X I X R
P = V X V / R

Look it up.

 

[LD1]

You are mostly correct, except the first line. Watts does NOT equal ohms times amps times amps. Watts is simply volts times amps.

Not correct. Power can be calculate several ways
P = V X I
P = I X I X R
P = V X V / R

Look it up.

He IS correct. What is THIS^^

 

[Iplayfarmer]

People refer to their electrical service as being 110V or 220V (or even worse as a 120V/220V service...it CANNOT be 120V/220V) but it isn't, it's 120V/240V, ...

I have one better than that. My BIL who is a pretty good computer programmer and has forgotten more about electronics than I'll ever know likes to talk about "Two phase" electricity. As in "So, when you wired your air compressor did you wire it two phase." Since he's the kind that's never wrong, I make a point to not argue. I'll usually respond something like "I wired it for 240 with two hots."

 

[BobRip]

I have one better than that. My BIL who is a pretty good computer programmer and has forgotten more about electronics than I'll ever know likes to talk about "Two phase" electricity. As in "So, when you wired your air compressor did you wire it two phase." Since he's the kind that's never wrong, I make a point to not argue. I'll usually respond something like "I wired it for 240 with two hots."

There are two phase systems (at least we briefly discussed it in college). They are not the same as what you have in your house. It takes three wires and the phases are 90 degrees apart. In Your home the two legs are 180 degrees apart. The two phase makes the motor simpler, no starting capacitators or starting switches. It takes as much wire as three phase, but does not provide as smooths torque. So you never see it.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

There are two phase systems (at least we briefly discussed it in college). They are not the same as what you have in your house. It takes three wires and the phases are 90 degrees apart. In Your home the two legs are 180 degrees apart. The two phase makes the motor simpler, no starting capacitators or starting switches. It takes as much wire as three phase, but does not provide as smooths torque. So you never see it.

I learn something new every day. I'm quite familiar with 3 phase power from work, and of course single phase power from home. I didn't know there was two phase power, but I did know that I don't have it, and that my BIL knew nothing about it.

I have a main power line running right past my house, and occasionally I daydream about having 3 phase power run to my garage. There are a lot of nice 3 phase tools available for cheap on the used market.

 

[grsthegreat]

There might be nice cheap 3 phase tools, but wait till you see the monthly bill for 3 phase power...yeiks.

My neighbor down the way has it on his property to a shop, and the minimum elect bill, whether or not its used, is $75.00/month. Then theres a surcharge if too much is used during peak times.

 

[BobRip]

He IS correct. What is THIS^^

I is current. Does that answer your question?

 

[LD1]

I is current. Does that answer your question?

And current is amps.

I x I x R

is the SAME as

Amps x Amps x ohms

Yet you say Amps x Amps x Ohms is wrong, and I x I x R is correct???