240D Starter Issue

Altona · Jul 25, 2020

Good morning, Have been working through a starting issue on my 240D. The issue has been around for a while but I just worked through it or with it better stated. When you activate the starter it will sometimes whirl/grind and not engage. Sometimes it does this once, sometimes 4-5 times before it engages and turns the engine over. Have been getting help from Aaron at Hoyes and winston on tracing through the possible electrical issues with it. Changed the solenoid recently, two weeks ago changed the starter drive. Voltage to the solenoid (battery side) is fine (12.8V) . When the starter is engaged it drops to between 10+11. When it is whirling/grinding voltage is still 12+. Used booster cables as well right to the solenoid, values unchanged. As I was doing the booster thing, obviously tricky

trying to have the cables, a voltmeter connected to the solenoid posts and ground and turn the key my ear was relatively close to the bell housing and the grinding seemed more obvious than the whirling (although still not terrible). Different than when you're in the seat turning it over. This caused me to think that perhaps it was more than just a starter issue. Removed the starter to view the ring gear. Marked the spot I could see and with the decompressor open turned the flywheel through the 360 degrees. There is wear all around, but for estimate 80% not too bad in my opinion. there was section that seemed more than the others. Could this have caused the lack of engagement and the whirling/grinding? I 've attached two pictures. It would explain why the engagement is intermittent and random. It would depend where the flywheel landed when it last stopped. I did record the noise it makes but that file type isn't support on this site for uploading. Any opinions or advice welcome. I'd replace the ring gear if that will solve the issue but splitting the tractor is a lot of work and want to feel comfortable that is probably it.
Thanks guys

Altona · Jul 25, 2020

I should add the photo on left is the 20%"worst" on the right is representative of the rest. The black "blob" on the right photo is a mark I made so I would know when I had been all the way around.

winston1 · Jul 25, 2020

Not saying it is bad enough but just noticing it is available. FLYWHEEL RING GEAR: Yanmar Tractor Parts

CoyPatton · Jul 25, 2020

Altona said:
Good morning, Have been working through a starting issue on my 240D. The issue has been around for a while but I just worked through it or with it better stated. When you activate the starter it will sometimes whirl/grind and not engage. Sometimes it does this once, sometimes 4-5 times before it engages and turns the engine over. Have been getting help from Aaron at Hoyes and winston on tracing through the possible electrical issues with it. Changed the solenoid recently, two weeks ago changed the starter drive. Voltage to the solenoid (battery side) is fine (12.8V) . When the starter is engaged it drops to between 10+11. When it is whirling/grinding voltage is still 12+. Used booster cables as well right to the solenoid, values unchanged. As I was doing the booster thing, obviously trickyView attachment 664292 View attachment 664291 trying to have the cables, a voltmeter connected to the solenoid posts and ground and turn the key my ear was relatively close to the bell housing and the grinding seemed more obvious than the whirling (although still not terrible). Different than when you're in the seat turning it over. This caused me to think that perhaps it was more than just a starter issue. Removed the starter to view the ring gear. Marked the spot I could see and with the decompressor open turned the flywheel through the 360 degrees. There is wear all around, but for estimate 80% not too bad in my opinion. there was section that seemed more than the others. Could this have caused the lack of engagement and the whirling/grinding? I 've attached two pictures. It would explain why the engagement is intermittent and random. It would depend where the flywheel landed when it last stopped. I did record the noise it makes but that file type isn't support on this site for uploading. Any opinions or advice welcome. I'd replace the ring gear if that will solve the issue but splitting the tractor is a lot of work and want to feel comfortable that is probably it.
Thanks guys

What does/did the starter gear look like. Generally speaking the starter gear wears more than the flywheel gears. The worse wear may be enough to cause engagement issues. (On my phone that photo is not crisp/sharp focus).
That said, I tend to think you still have some weak components in the starter—possibly the spring or other electric components.

Roadworthy · Jul 25, 2020

You say you changed the starter drive. What exactly are you calling the starter drive? When my Mitsubishi was doing that I changed the whole starter with Bendix and drive gear. The problem went away.

California · Jul 25, 2020

Roadworthy said:
When my Mitsubishi was doing that I changed the whole starter with Bendix and drive gear. The problem went away.

Similar, I found a badly-rebuilt starter on my YM240 and replaced it with a $100 new starter from Rare Electric (on Ebay). 15 years later now, and it still works fine.

One thing I did was choose a starter with the same teeth and mounting but 2.0 KW rating instead of the 1.2 or 1.4 KW Yanmar spec'd for YM240. This starter intended for a 40 hp? 4 cylinder engine spins the engine like mad. I think this could solve the problem of difficult starting on an engine with low compression, putting off an overhaul for a few years. It needed the wire down from the ignition switch extended 6 inches, no other changes.

But watch out for the Ebay China vendors listing a 'fits anything' starter. I've read that they may ship one with the wrong number of teeth.

Industrial Toys · Jul 25, 2020

That would make perfect sense for the apparent damage, which I don't see as a problem in future.

Starters are so cheap, replacing a suspect one is an easy first step. Having a spare, wouldn't be the end of the world. And if it cures the problem, then you can spend time repairing the old one if you feel like it and have a spare.

Altona · Jul 25, 2020

Roadworthy said:
You say you changed the starter drive. What exactly are you calling the starter drive? When my Mitsubishi was doing that I changed the whole starter with Bendix and drive gear. The problem went away.

Hi roadworthy-What I am calling the starter drive is a sub-unit of a small disc (the solenoid actuator presses against)the spring and the starter gear) When the solenoid activates it pushes the plate forward which compresses the spring and causes the gear to spin up the shaft and engage the ring gear. I did this because the old gear was really worn.

Altona · Jul 25, 2020

Thanks for the input CoyPatton-That was the first thing I did, the starter gear comes as a unit with the spring and actuator plate. The old one was pretty chewed up. Perhaps I'll change the starter first. Splitting the tractor doesn't bother me to change the ring gear other than the enormous amount of work involved but all the advice I'm getting includes a question about the electircal components.