25 Acres worth buying hay equipment?

[tradosaurus]

Hey guys, haven't been on in a while as work has been getting in the way of life. I'm not really looking to get into hay, but profit which would be great is a secondary. My current situation is bushhogging it 3-5 times per year, which I estimate is 40-50 total hours and $600-$800 in diesel plus just normal wear and tear on my equipment. Ideally, I'd like to do something with it to keep it looking nice and cost me less or even make a profit (even if that profit was gaining equipment from the work put into it). In all honesty, if it would take me 200 hours per year to cut hay and make $1,000 then I would likely just lease it or have someone cut on shares as $5 per hour and 4 times the tractor hours wouldn't be worth it. But, if after write-offs and potential sales I thought it justified the time, then I would do that too. I don't have anything that I just want to do with it, just looking at several options and Mrs. TigerFanatic said tree farm is a no-go. I've never explored any tax advantages of any type of farming, so doing a lot of reading and thinking about it.

What is your opinion on a tree farm?
Is it less labor intensive and better profit?

 

[TigerFanatic1]

Better to try and see how it goes then to never do it and wonder about it forever.

Worse case scenario is that you don't like making hay, and you sell everything you bought. Prices are holding on most things, so it's doubtful that you will lose very much money if you decide to sell off the haying equipment.

I'm leaning this way, but since I'm building a house at the moment I figured I'd take the time to explore everything just in case something sticks out as a must/most not do.

 

[TigerFanatic1]

What is your opinion on a tree farm?
Is it less labor intensive and better profit?

From what I gather it is less labor intensive after the initial planting, then turns out to be a long duration of waiting for profit. It's another thing that I don't have a good feel for on information provided. Some say there is no money involved other than tax advantages and some say it's the best thing ever. lol. My thoughts on having it was something that wouldn't take a lot of labor for me to keep up, additional hunting property, and potential tax help.
Nothing I'm looking at is something that I expect to allow me to quit my job or becoming a primary income. I wouldn't mind working something with the land that would provide decent supplementary income, but isn't a must have for me and probably not a reality on such a small piece.

 

[TigerFanatic1]

Yeah, having the tractor already is the only reason I can even consider attempting anything that won't be a guaranteed loss.

 

[Hay Dude]

Yeah, having the tractor already is the only reason I can even consider attempting anything that won't be a guaranteed loss.

of all your equip & project considerations you are weighing, one thing is certain: your M series tractor is a perfect fit for about any activity you chose.

Agree with all that, but what you’ll find is the attachments are what will cause you the most headaches. Usually the baler will lead the charge.
Hopefully you either know your way around a baler, or have help.

Rakes & tedders - pretty simple.
Haybines & discbines - moderate complexity
Balers are like women-very complex, touchy & picky. Heck they’re even moody.

 

[lman]

I always thought that one forgotten expense for hay production was storage. If you don't have a barn for storage, forget square bales and round bales will need to be sold or fed asap. I now see a lot of round bales being wrapped with plastic. The wrapped bales must store good enough for horses because I see my Amish neighbor using them for his horses.

 

[Farmer495]

I always thought that one forgotten expense for hay production was storage. If you don't have a barn for storage, forget square bales and round bales will need to be sold or fed asap. I now see a lot of round bales being wrapped with plastic. The wrapped bales must store good enough for horses because I see my Amish neighbor using them for his horses.

If you wrap and sell you pretty well have to individual wrap and use a bale grabber, so more $$.

At least here plastic is on par, or cheaper, than the annual property taxes on a new building big enough to hold the bales, and a wrapper is a lot cheaper than a building.

I do know of some making tubes of round bales and selling them one or two at a time, the air exposure doesn't really hurt the end of dryer bales anyways.

 

[Farmer495]

not being familiar with round bale wraps, how are they disposed? recyclable material? just wondering.

Here it goes into the "garbage"

 

[ericm979]

It is recycleable but someone has to set up a special program to do it: Plastic has made farming easier, but what happens to the material after it’s used?

 

[Hay Dude]

As a footnote to my round bale wrap recycling question. Never quite earned my living in ag or raising cattle. Tried raising cattle when 1st purchasing my current Ozark place in late 70's, but then moved on to other things.

i don't imply in my question that the recycling question is the hay users responsibility in any way. In fact if we are subject to regs such as Tier 4 on diesels, etc, then there should be fed regs to accommodate proper disposal such as bale wraps. The small ag business is shrinking by the day. Where are govt & enviro regs that support small operations that would also promote sound environmental practices?

That’s the whole idea, my friend….to put us small timers out of business.

There’s 2 guys up my way that are BIG, like REAL BIG. They are the only ones making big coin.

Round here, bale wrap just gets put in the burn pile. I don’t wrap, so I don’t deal with it.

 

[ericm979]

then there should be fed regs to accommodate proper disposal such as bale wraps.

There should be government support for recycling all sorts of plastics, and other things too. It's one of those things like road building and fire fighting that just is not practical to leave to individuals. If we actually recycled stuff and stopped using un-recycleable materials we'd use a lot fewer new raw materials.

When we moved to the mountains we talked to one trash service who, when we asked about recycling, ranted at us about how it was a scam and a socialist plot. We thought they were cranks. Turns out they were partially right about the scam part. Very little plastic that goes into the recycling stream actually gets recycled. Everyone thought it did until China stopped taking it. Then we found out they had been faking it the whole time.

Future archeologists and paleontologists will identify our layer in the sediments by all the plastic.

 

[Hay Dude]

Unlike dry baled hay, Wrapped hay is hay baled right after it is cut. This also eliminates the need for a tedder. But it also means you need to buy a wrapper & plastic wrap. Probably a wash there.
This also assumes you have the land space to store wrapped bales.

The best thing about it is you can bale in poorer weather conditions (cloudy, cool, etc.) and best of all, finish much more quickly.

 

[Farmer495]

Unlike dry baled hay, Wrapped hay is hay baled right after it is cut. This also eliminates the need for a tedder. But it also means you need to buy a wrapper & plastic wrap. Probably a wash there.
This also assumes you have the land space to store wrapped bales.

The best thing about it is you can bale in poorer weather conditions (cloudy, cool, etc.) and best of all, finish much more quickly.

Exactly. I mowed one field 9-10pm, was baling it 11 am the next morning. Was a clear windy night. I do use a tedder, mainly since it gains me a few hours and ensures it's all mixed uniformly (not dryish on top, wet on bottom)

 

[LHF2019]

I always thought that one forgotten expense for hay production was storage. If you don't have a barn for storage, forget square bales and round bales will need to be sold or fed asap. I now see a lot of round bales being wrapped with plastic. The wrapped bales must store good enough for horses because I see my Amish neighbor using them for his horses.

We have amish wrapping small squares. Must work okay cause they are not buying my baleage. But I hear of lots of loss at the same time. Some try to feed it to the horses. That can have some risk. Heard of one that wiped out all his horses doing that.

Wrapping dry hay you still need to let it go through a sweating period. If not it traps it and can potentially create mold and slime on outside of bale.

not being familiar with round bale wraps, how are they disposed? recyclable material? just wondering.

I have a dumpster on site. I won't burn.

 

[Hay Dude]

Amish here do a lot of wrapping (hay type wrapping, not ghetto music type)

 

[Jrasband]

Has anyone talked about how haying is mining minerals and fertility from your land and shipping it down the road? And no chemical fertilizer does not replace it. So haying is a losing money operation and it mines your land.

Taking only 1 cutting per year instead of 2 or 3 helps a lot. Putting cows on the land in between cutting helps as well.

 

[two_bit_score]

There should be government support for recycling all sorts of plastics, and other things too.

I like everything you said but just keep in mind that 'gov't support' means taxes, restrictions, bureaucracy, enforcement and overall increases in costs to everyone. China will keep using the US as a dumping ground for their junk. I wish there was a better way than depending on consumers to make the right choices.

 

[two_bit_score]

too bad chicken litter is now about impossible to find (around here).

We used it for years. It was great fertilizer.

 

[3Ts]

From what I gather it is less labor intensive after the initial planting, then turns out to be a long duration of waiting for profit. It's another thing that I don't have a good feel for on information provided. Some say there is no money involved other than tax advantages and some say it's the best thing ever. lol. My thoughts on having it was something that wouldn't take a lot of labor for me to keep up, additional hunting property, and potential tax help.
Nothing I'm looking at is something that I expect to allow me to quit my job or becoming a primary income. I wouldn't mind working something with the land that would provide decent supplementary income, but isn't a must have for me and probably not a reality on such a small piece.

I have 50 acres of forest of mixed pines and hardwoods. I bought this place after the pines were about 20 years old and nothing was done to them in those 20 years. So I did not have the expense of planting them. I am registered with a forestry tax exemption and to get it, the tax assessor came out and quizzed me for a half hour on forestry related issues. Apparently I passed because I got the tax exemption. Going forward, after each storm, I run the trails to be sure they are clear, usually a small tree is blown over and I cut it up to remove it from the trail. I also measure the Basal area in a few spots to see how the trees are growing, although I do not need to do that for the exemption. I have had the Texas Forest Service come out and do a management plan (which includes harvesting) and as long as I follow that, there's no issues with the government. I did have my place logged back in 2020 and received an income from that. It was enough to pay the property taxes for a couple of years, but not enough to live on by any stretch of the imagination. The improvements are tax deductible as are maintenance expenses for the equipment, so that is where the benefit is. Mostly it's waiting for the trees to get big enough to harvest which is around a 7 year cycle. Thinning for pulp wood is first with maybe a few logs going for lumber. Pulpwood doesn't pay much, lumber is better, and veneer for plywood is best. It is possible for a tree to be too big. I've been told the sawmills can't take veneer logs bigger than 24". (???? seems small to me) My trees were 8" - 14" and most went as pulpwood. The next harvest in 2027 should be better but the market for logs fluctuates and may or may not be a good time to sell, but the crop can sit in the field without damage if it needs to.

Edit: I forgot to mention that 50 acres of logs is not enough to interest loggers. I hired a forester to market my logs and they combined my property with 3 others to get a little over 200 acres near each other that the loggers would then bid on. I strongly suggest you use a forester to market your logs, especially the first time you go to sell them. They'll advise you who the reputable loggers are and advise on contract terms.

 

[Jrasband]

If I was in your position I would be looking for someone to lease it for rotational grazing. Who, if anyone is farming regeneratively in a 5ish mile radius around you? I would be talking to them about running some cows on your land.

Than you would be getting paid for someone to take care of and fertilize your land for you. As well as supporting your local community and building networks.