25 Acres worth buying hay equipment?

[Hay Dude]

I have a mild obsession with making off farm money with the hay tractors. Only the ones with loaders do this well. The ones without are limited to field mowing and thats about it.

Once you start hay farming, you must accompany that with off farm income (unless you have a daily job) or you’ll be in the hole up till you get into several hundred acres of hay.

Until I got over 500+ tons of hay production, money was pretty scarce. Now that I’m around 1,000 tons, there’s a little bit of relief.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm in East Texas and I buy about 30 or more round bales a year. When we have a bad year, people start buying it from other states. Louisiana is the closest place to buy hay from, but because of all the rain they get, it has the reputation of being moldy. It's also really cheap, so people that I know will take the risk because of how cheap it is there, and then complain about it when it gets here. When buying hay from somebody that's had it trucked in, the first question you ask is where it's from. If it's from Louisiana or Mississippi, it's usually better to pass on it regardless f the price.

Round bales from Louisiana sell for $35 to $50. Local round bales in my area of Tyler/Longview will sell for $65 to $120 depending on quality. Best quality is pure fertilized Coastal Bermuda. Then you work your way down the price scale by how much Bahia is in it, and even less for hay with weeds in it.

I'm in the process of buying 40 acres that's full of Mesquite trees, but also has some really nice Bermuda on it. My goal is to remove the Mesquite, and hire somebody to bale it. Eventually I might buy my own equipment, but my main goal is to have a reliable source of hay for my animals. If there is any extra to sell, then that would be a bonus, but I really don't want to get into selling hay.

 

[SethWilliams]

but my main goal is to have a reliable source of hay for my animals.

This is exactly why I got into haying. In middle TN, we always have a perfect window to make hay at the end of May or beginning of June. Everyone cuts their own land and hay first, and I got tired year after year of having my quality hay sit while I waited on somebody to custom bale it. After having a few different people not show up without calling or texting, not doing a good job, or being unreasonable, I decided it was best to do it myself.

I helped each of those guys that custom baled my hay, learned a lot in the process, Googled a lot, and have now successfully hayed my land the last several years by myself.

Now that I am feeding that hay to my cows, I take pride in having quality feed that I don’t have to rely on other people to produce.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think that will become my goal as I progress with my farm. The money to buy everything is absurd, but not being able to find hay when you need it, makes it more likely to happen. In the last dozen years, I've had four really good suppliers. Three of them have quit selling hay for one reason or another. I have two feed stores that sell good quality hay, but it's one bale at a time from them, and they are $30 more then buying it from a farm. In bad years, they run out too!!!

 

[taem]

This is my backup plan and something I may at least look into for a year or 2. I will need to discuss some of the finer details because I don't want anyone bringing in a bunch of manure as fertilizer. lol. I plan to run a disc through it in the spring because it is a little rough.

Don't want manure? How are you planning to build soil quality, organic matter and fertility?

 

[CobyRupert]

Make money back? So equipment is essentially free, or generates profit? Good question.

Remember, if you spend $20,000 on hay equipment, it not like you lost $20,000, or the $20,000 is gone. You still have the $20,000, but instead of it being in the form of numbers on a bank statement, it’s in the form of hay equipment. And it can likely be transformed back into (nearly) the same number on a bank statement the day you sell the equipment. You still have the money. Always had it. And in the meantime made hay.

Whereas, the money you spend buying hay is turned into **** as soon as it gets eaten.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think that will become my goal as I progress with my farm. The money to buy everything is absurd, but not being able to find hay when you need it, makes it more likely to happen. In the last dozen years, I've had four really good suppliers. Three of them have quit selling hay for one reason or another. I have two feed stores that sell good quality hay, but it's one bale at a time from them, and they are $30 more then buying it from a farm. In bad years, they run out too!!!

Probably because cheap skates have beat them down on price so bad, they quit.

 

[Hay Dude]

This is my backup plan and something I may at least look into for a year or 2. I will need to discuss some of the finer details because I don't want anyone bringing in a bunch of manure as fertilizer. lol. I plan to run a disc through it in the spring because it is a little rough.

Then you might want to reconsider doing hay at all. lol
Manure is the best free fertilizer you can get.

 

[TigerFanatic1]

Then you might want to reconsider doing hay at all. lol
Manure is the best free fertilizer you can get.

Well, I was a little vague. I don't mind using as an actual fertilizer, but know people that claim others have attempted to store some on their property while leasing. Lived around cattle pastures most of my life, so I'm good with that....just not piles lol.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

In the process of purchasing around 29 acres of old pasture land, which is roughly 25 acres of grass, 3/4-1 acre pond, and the remaining is smaller woods that I will likely reclaim with a mulcher or something similar. I'm not sure what I want to do with is, but it connects to our the property (mostly wooded) that we are building on. Could I realistically make my money back on the haying equipment on such a small property? I currently have a Kubota M9540 and 15' flexwing, so would have to buy everything. No real desire to start cutting commercially outside of my property, just looking for something to do with it that would allow me to keep it looking nice other than just bush-hogging. I work in the oilfield so spend periods of weeks away from home, so cattle is unlikely until I retire in 10-15 years.

Get you some hay equipment. Take care of It. If you don't like haying sell it.

 

[mo1]

"here" you'd be 15k CDN minimum just for a serviceable discbine and round baler and old rolabar rake....and that stuff would break down so you'd need to work on it yourself.

Disc-moco are cheap used here compared to straight mower.

100k CDN would get you all new basic round baler (70k), 8 foot disc mower (15k) and rotary rake (15k). Yes I have been pricing.

Wheel and bar rakes are pretty simple and pretty reliable, just grease them regularly and don't go so fast that the teeth/wheels bounce up and down and smack the ground and they will last a long time unless you got a real rinky-dink wheel rake. Dinky wheel rakes like to break welds on the arms. A NH Rolabar rake or a Deere bar rake of the same vintage are actually quite reliable pieces of equipment.

Beaten-up used Discbines or disc MoCos are cheap because they are beaten up and require expensive major repairs like rebuilding a grenaded or rusted-through gear bed or replacing the rubber on the conditioner rollers. A disc mower-conditioner in serviceable condition at least in this area (a lot farther south than Canada) costs noticeably more than a regular disc mower.

 

[Farmer495]

Wheel and bar rakes are pretty simple and pretty reliable, just grease them regularly and don't go so fast that the teeth/wheels bounce up and down and smack the ground and they will last a long time unless you got a real rinky-dink wheel rake. Dinky wheel rakes like to break welds on the arms. A NH Rolabar rake or a Deere bar rake of the same vintage are actually quite reliable pieces of equipment.

Beaten-up used Discbines or disc MoCos are cheap because they are beaten up and require expensive major repairs like rebuilding a grenaded or rusted-through gear bed or replacing the rubber on the conditioner rollers. A disc mower-conditioner in serviceable condition at least in this area (a lot farther south than Canada) costs noticeably more than a regular disc mower.

I'm running an 80s era 256, was a year old when it came to the farm. Only had couple u joints, set of pawls and many tines over the years. Still has original rubber and some original tines left. 8' 6" at a time is the bottleneck right now. Debating on whether to get a bridge hitch and run two or just upgrade to a rotary rake.

I think here the reason used discmower conditioners can be had cheap is for exactly what you mentioned, they are ready to blow up and have already had almost all the life used up.

 

[Hay Dude]

Wheel and bar rakes are pretty simple and pretty reliable, just grease them regularly and don't go so fast that the teeth/wheels bounce up and down and smack the ground and they will last a long time unless you got a real rinky-dink wheel rake. Dinky wheel rakes like to break welds on the arms. A NH Rolabar rake or a Deere bar rake of the same vintage are actually quite reliable pieces of equipment.

Beaten-up used Discbines or disc MoCos are cheap because they are beaten up and require expensive major repairs like rebuilding a grenaded or rusted-through gear bed or replacing the rubber on the conditioner rollers. A disc mower-conditioner in serviceable condition at least in this area (a lot farther south than Canada) costs noticeably more than a regular disc mower.

Mmmm I have a wheel rake. Wheels are far from “dinky”. Arms are strong box beams. Mines real solid.

 

[mo1]

Mmmm I have a wheel rake. Wheels are far from “dinky”. Arms are strong box beams. Mines real solid.

There are good wheel rakes and dinky wheel rakes. The dinky ones like to break welds, the good ones don't. I have used the 10 wheel version of your rake and it's not a dinky one.

 

[shooterdon]

You have a lot of good advice so far.

I would be surprised to find anyone who breaks even with a 25 acre operation. So, plan to lose money along with having to repair the stuff you can buy at an "affordable" price. And stuff breaks when you need it!! If you are good at fixing things and enjoy doing it, it helps a lot.

I am weird. I do things for three reasons. The first is I need to get things done; the second saving money; the last is making a profit. I do not need to work to have fun, but some people do.

You need to figure out what "turns your crank"...what matters to you.

One good point in another post...the money tied up is not wasted if it does not work out for you. Most used equipment holds value and if haying does not work out for you, you can sell the stuff without losing a lot.

If you have a significant other, the risks/rewards and understanding the "harsh reality" avoids future headaches and quarrels. I did that when I made the investment to try a side business selling firewood. Our downsides were a loss of $10k, vs a profit of $7k/year.

 

[big bubba]

OP: you work hard in the oil fields, & return to an exciting adventure of land ownership.
i'd be asking myself how do i really want to involve myself with the land on your well earned time off.
i suggest to take your time before investing heavily in the hay trade. lease your hay fields, focus on the many new tasks at hand in land ownership then decide.

on the other hand, if you are interested in hay production, & looking for an excuse or justification to jump into the hay equip, then by all means, follow the bliss. remembering, of course, how that equip investment could be used elsewhere in your new land adventure.
btw, imho your tractor is one of the best of K utility series, & pre tier 4 too boot.
good luck w/your decisions

 

[Hay Dude]

You have a lot of good advice so far.

I would be surprised to find anyone who breaks even with a 25 acre operation. So, plan to lose money along with having to repair the stuff you can buy at an "affordable" price. And stuff breaks when you need it!! If you are good at fixing things and enjoy doing it, it helps a lot.

I am weird. I do things for three reasons. The first is I need to get things done; the second saving money; the last is making a profit. I do not need to work to have fun, but some people do.

You need to figure out what "turns your crank"...what matters to you.

One good point in another post...the money tied up is not wasted if it does not work out for you. Most used equipment holds value and if haying does not work out for you, you can sell the stuff without losing a lot.

If you have a significant other, the risks/rewards and understanding the "harsh reality" avoids future headaches and quarrels. I did that when I made the investment to try a side business selling firewood. Our downsides were a loss of $10k, vs a profit of $7k/year.

Good points there.
I farm about 600 acres of hay now and profits are too slim to provide for family and the “good life”. Have to do extensive “off-farm” work to make a nice living.
Even if you were given your farm equipment for free, I kind of think 25 acres would still lose money, unless it was like an exotic alfalfa

 

[big bubba]

agree on that, as one who's observed hay production in the Ozarks for 45 yrs. but the OP may have hay fever: the only cure of which is equip purchase. i've been there a few times myself in other ways

 

[Hay Dude]

It’s an “addictive” process. It does get into your blood and can cause you to make ”unprofitable” decisions.

 

[jwmorris]

If not, I’m sure there is some local guy like me who would be interested in the field if it’s in hay production.

This is what I did, find guy close that's bailing hay and strike up a conversation. Keeps me in ag exemption at the house, field maintained and I don't have to add equipment hauling to the list of things to do.