25 HP vs 35 HP

[prof fate]

I had a kubota L175 and had issues dragging ( no loader) a hickory log 10" diam about 18 feet long. Done carefully it would do it...but you had to plan ahead.

CK3510..can pick it up (forks on loader) and another too - and not think twice about it. Dragging..haven't had to as I've been able to pick up everything without issue..uphill loaded and not even taxing it.

I wanted the 40hp but it was $2500 more..for only 5hp and same frame/loader..not worth it to me.

I've heard lots of people trade up to a bigger tractor..can't say anyone ever said " I went a size too big"!

By humping logs, I just mean dragging out logs from felled and limbed trees. Most of my trees are post oak, 12 to 24 inches in diameter. I'd like the tractor to be able to drag the log and lift it onto the sawmill. I the length could vary, but I don't think it would need to be longer than 12 ft. If post oak is 64 pcf, than that would by about 600 to 2400 lbs for a 12 ft log. So, a bit or a struggle on the upper end, but mostly doable for the tractors I am looking at. But that is a very good point and something I had not calculated. It makes those few hundred more pounds loader lift of the Kioti more appealing for reasons other than just bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers.

Profile edited to show my location.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I mowed this with a L2501 and 5ft bush hog. It did great.

View attachment 562401

That looks to be mostly weeds and grass stems which are relatively easy to cut compared to shredding small trees and brush. No doubt you can do it with a 25 HP or less tractor but how slow do you go. Cutting 1.5+" saplings is hard on the PTO shaft. I would want the biggest tractor that is practical for the job.

It is true that Kubota has a high resale value, BUT, they cost much more to buy so I don't know if they sell higher enough to recoup the difference in original cost or not. I have both Kubota and LS and haven't had any issues with either of them. I haven't been to the dealer with them since the warranty ran out and then it was only to have them replace an upgraded seat bracket and drawbar on the LS. Also they sent me a replacement for my leaking fuel tank, that I still have not installed (JBWeld patch is still holding after 8 years).
Nothing ever done at dealer for Kubota.

So my recommendation is to go with the 35 HP tractor of which ever brand you like the best and don't worry about resale value so much. As long as you have a local dealer to get your parts like oil and fuel filters, you should be OK. One thing no one mentions much as for dealers is "Do they have a service truck that can come to you for service". This is a big deal with warranty work because very few if any dealers will come get your tractor for free even for warrant work. Many times small issues can be fixed at your house rather than hauling the tractor to the dealer.

 

[prof fate]

$1200? Probably. I would have.
I was quoted $2500 to move up that 5hp.

Could be diff dealers...mine was running a prom on 35's.

Having worked at motorcycle and car dealerships I know the 'games' they play, those played by the manufacturers, even finance companies. Hence the need to shop around on the same item.

I found, after a lot of googling, price list for kioti online..wish it were true!

And price wise ask about the options you want - filled tires (free at my dealer), he also through in the floor mat and horn (why have a button and no horn?). The rear remotes were $295- at a kubota dealer thsi will set you back $900. The bucket level indicator - free. Kubota? $75.

Tractors ability to do work is often most closely associated to their weight - heavier is better.

The weights are:

Kioti CK3510 3,307 lbs tractor plus 840 lbs loader = 4,147 lbs
LS XG3135 2,881 lbs tractor plus 728 lbs loader = 3,609 lbs
Kubota L2501 2,623 lbs tractor plus 845? lbs loader = 3,468 lbs

Add another 600? lbs for rim guard to any of these. Add a box blade for ballast, too.

Going up a frame size for more weight is not an option for my budget. Plus I'd also like to be able to tow the tractor with my Tundra in a pinch. The Kioti seems to win out on paper in pretty much all categories. I have more confidence in the Kubota dealerships, but not $3,000 more confidence for a L3301 vs the Kioti or LS equivalent (actually the Kioti and LS spec above the L3301, too). And if the L2501 is going to be under-powered, which it sounds like it could be, I don't want to go that route either. I am a tractor neophyte, but I expect to do my own maintenance and possibly simple repairs. I don't really enjoy working on mechanical stuff, but I can figure out basic things either on my own or by asking questions.

If I can't use the tractor to move the biggest, baddest logs around, I'll cut something smaller. It's only 24 acres and I'm not logging the place. Maybe just a few logs here and there *if* I get a portable sawmill.

The CK3510 was where I landed initially and sort of where I am headed back to. Of course, the next question will be: Is it worth $1,200 to upgrade to the CK4010?...

 

[Geotech]

prof fate, I'm pretty sure I'll end up with the Kioti. They have a pretty strong value proposition. I know the LS are strong now, but while they've been around making tractors for other brands for a long time, I like how Daedong has consistently offered the Kioti line for 25 years. My next challenge will be which dealer to use. I have one near my house that I like a lot that's been selling Kioti for 25 years. There is another one closer to the property where the tractor will be, but they've only been in business for 4 years. Nobody has interacted with me when I looky loo at tractors at that location. I'll need to talk more with the dealer near the property. It would be cheaper to transport the tractor back and forth that dealer.

 

[prof fate]

That was a concernt of mine as well -[ but I don't use the 4400lb kioti for mowing the yard. However, the gates i use often show compression shall we say, of the ground. I won't say ruts..but we'll see what wet weahter will do to it as it's june/july and pretty dry.

The HST comsumers 3hp compared to geared from my looking about. the convenience of the HST wind hands down.

One feature the saleman showed me and I use it often is there is no seat sensor on the kioti - so a) you can stand to see the bucket/forks and nothing shuts off, and B) you can move the tractor from the ground when, say, hooking up an implement on the 3pt and needing to align it. VERY handy (and probably dangerous for some...)

I absolutely love my L2501. But, I have tested its limits. And can confidently tell you that it would be over-worked with your planned activities. I doubt highly that it would pull a shipping container around. I agree with the rest of the group here, the CK sounds like a better fit.

One thing that surprised me when jumping from a 24 HP geared tractor (JD 770) to the 25 HP HST tractor is the loss of PTO horsepower. I read it here a hundred times, but to feel the difference was staggering. I've used the same 5ft brush cutter on both and the JD will cut through everything. But I've run flat out of power in the Kubota.

In all other ways the Kubota is just more tractor though. Bigger chassis, loader and more weight. Its usually just right for me. And I wouldn't want anything larger on my lawn.

 

[rScotty]

prof fate, I'm pretty sure I'll end up with the Kioti. They have a pretty strong value proposition. I know the LS are strong now, but while they've been around making tractors for other brands for a long time, I like how Daedong has consistently offered the Kioti line for 25 years. My next challenge will be which dealer to use. I have one near my house that I like a lot that's been selling Kioti for 25 years. There is another one closer to the property where the tractor will be, but they've only been in business for 4 years. Nobody has interacted with me when I looky loo at tractors at that location. I'll need to talk more with the dealer near the property. It would be cheaper to transport the tractor back and forth that dealer.

Sounds like a plan.

On chosing dealers, now why would you transport the tractor back and forth to either dealer? Why is that part of the decision? I ask because I've had tractors 50+ years and don't remember doing that even once. Dealers around here that are established have a mobile mechanic service which can handle most things. Their service truck even has a hoist arm. The tiny bit of warranty work I've had done was done vial the mobile service right here on my property. Now that may or may not be the case with your dealers, but if one is in business 25 years it wouldn't surprise me. Sure worth asking. And if the answer is no mobile service then consider the following thought...

A thought you might want to consider.....When I bought the last new tractor we put right on the contract that during the warranty the dealer was responsible for getting the tractor back and forth if warranty work was needed. After warranty it's my nickle - but I'd probably hire them anyway since they haul tractors all the time and have a set rate/mile.

Oh, and Geotech, I've got a question from your very first post. You wrote, "...... I also like that the L2501 would not have a regen cycle/DPF filter and, maybe this is dumb, but I like that it runs at a lower RPM."

It's the lower RPM part that that I don't understand. Did someone tell you a story about what RPM they like to run at and make it sound like a necessity? Frankly, that is a common story.

I ask because the truth is that tractors pretty much run at whatever RPM that you set the throttle to. Their torque curve is fairly flat, which means emissions/RPM is flat as well. From either preference or belief, some folks like to run a motor faster or slower than others, but I've never heard of it making any difference to the life of the engine - and I've seen lots of engines in my time. Tractor engines are pretty much good for the average person's lifetime regardless of how they are run as long as they get something close to routine maintenance - which is basically oil & filters.

Have fun with your place, I went to HS not too far from you.
rScotty

 

[prof fate]

There are 4 kubota dealers within about an hour drive of me. One has 2 locations. I've done business with 2 of them = great people.
The 'bigger' dealer (two locations)...big inventory but i'd never do business with them. Stopped in last week for the first time and looked at the JD and Kubota tractors outside and inside the showroom...was there 20 minutes...NOBODY approached me. ****, only saw 1 guy. OH, and $1400 kubota push mower. Yes, 22" walk behind htey call them. $1438 to be precise. WTH?

the deere dealer I pass often (45 away) have an attitude problem. Won't deal with them either.

Kioti dealer is an hour north (3 locations, 1 in PA and 2 in NY) and also sells case and cub cadet.
Another is about an hour west in ohio, haven't been there.

LS dealer is ?? No idea.
NHolland is 45 min west, many folks here go Blue. Didn't look there once I found the kioti.

there is a mahindra dealer 30 min way, looked at them several times and just don't like 'em.

TYM has a dealer 2 hours north..don't want to go that far.

RK sells TYM, nice looking tractor. Support and service fears and well, the kioti with options was only $450 more (250 less without the options).

Googling shows kioti to be as good as (or maybe better) than kubota...

One Note - the HST pedal arrangement - when I was a kid we had a cub cadet lawn tractor with a 'treadle pedal' like Kubota (and others) use - I liked it. A lot better than my snapper that had a hand lever for the same thing.

The dual pedal on the kioti works...BUT...and Im adjusting to it - I and yuo and everyone that drives a car is used to right pedal go, left pedal stop. So when using the loader it's WAY to easy to do the wrong thing...typically i'll pull up and my foot will go to the 'brake' well, the tractor stops before i actually press the brake, but my foot is over it. Now it's time to back up and my foot instinctively moves to the 'gas pedal' and well, I move forward again..so I jam on the brakes..which actually is reverse...

I'm adjusting..nearly 60 hours in now. Just need to do more loader work (moving dirt some, manure a lot, turning the compost pile, moving sawdust with the bucket. Hay, logs, pallet I made up to carry tools/genset for remote work around the place)

I probably use the q-tach more than the 3point. Still learning how to get t-posts IN with the loader.

prof fate, I'm pretty sure I'll end up with the Kioti. They have a pretty strong value proposition. I know the LS are strong now, but while they've been around making tractors for other brands for a long time, I like how Daedong has consistently offered the Kioti line for 25 years. My next challenge will be which dealer to use. I have one near my house that I like a lot that's been selling Kioti for 25 years. There is another one closer to the property where the tractor will be, but they've only been in business for 4 years. Nobody has interacted with me when I looky loo at tractors at that location. I'll need to talk more with the dealer near the property. It would be cheaper to transport the tractor back and forth that dealer.

 

[prof fate]

DPF is a filter on the exhaust that collects soot/particles. The hotter you run the engine the less soot you get, so loping about at 1200 rpm isn't adivsable. 1800 and up is what they say you should do.

Also, with HST low rpm causes them to run hot and shorten their life.

For some a link pedal is a useful option - leave the hand throttle and idle and as you press the HST pedals the eng will rev as needed.

I'm told the DPF is good for about 3000 hours - but that will depend some on how the tractor is used. Check on the cost of a DPF filter - you will not like it. For our cummins at work it's $900.

Now don't be scared of that - 3000 hours is forever for most home owner users. My yard tractor gets maybe 30-40 hour a year - so that's what, 80-100 years of use? Even on my Kioti i'm doing 10 hours a week on average, will be a lot less in the winter (until global warming lets the grass grow year round) so maybe 300 hours a year..last tractor I only put 60 on over the winter. Which is bad for the filter as it never gets up to op temp just running hay out the horses. Still, 10 years...that's not bad. probably a way to just remove it by then, or we'll all have to go to solar powered electric tractors

Sounds like a plan.

I ask because the truth is that tractors pretty much run at whatever RPM that you set the throttle to. Their torque curve is fairly flat, which means emissions/RPM is flat as well. From either preference or belief, some folks like to run a motor faster or slower than others, but I've never heard of it making any difference to the life of the engine - and I've seen lots of engines in my time. Tractor engines are pretty much good for the average person's lifetime regardless of how they are run as long as they get something close to routine maintenance - which is basically oil & filters.

Have fun with your place, I went to HS not too far from you.
rScotty

 

[bigtiller]

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So now we get to the part where 10 people try to convince you to buy bigger, and 10 people say smaller is fine.

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One of our tractor buddies once asked how far apart to plant trees. The opinions in the high count thread ranged from 1 to 100 feet.

Sometimes we really help, sometimes maybe not so much. But we all write with good intentions. :thumbsup:

 

[Oldoak]

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snip

One of our tractor buddies once asked how far apart to plant trees. The opinions in the high count thread ranged from 1 to 100 feet.

Sometimes we really help, sometimes maybe not so much. But we all write with good intentions. :thumbsup:

And sometimes such as this question, people just don't go to the right resource when looking information.