2538 HST Won't Start

   / 2538 HST Won't Start
  • Thread Starter
#21  
What your trying to do is to bypass all the cables from the battery to the starter. By using the jumper cables you're confirming that the cables are good or bad and also whether you have a good ground to the frame.
This can also allow you to bypass the ignition switch. Since you say the your starter has the solenoid attached, were the heavy connection goes from solenoid to starter, you could touch positive battery cable to that stud to make starter spin. Without power going to small connector on solenoid, the engine won't spin due to bendix not engaging the flywheel.
PM me if needed and I'll send # so can talk if needed. Good luck, we're all here with help when needed!

Well that makes complete sense about bypassing to check the cables. I should致e understood that from the first post! Well, the problem is the cable from the positive terminal to the starter. I hooked up the battery jumper cables and flipped it over and started right up.

Thank you all for the trouble shooting! Back to NAPA!
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start #23  
Good to hear it’s up and running! As post #2 indicates the cables are suspect. Mahindra cables seem to suck up the battery acid and corrode internally. They look fine but don’t work.

Some of the suggestions here have been sound while others simply don’t hold up in the shop/field. Testing voltage drop is like testing for symptoms instead of testing for the root cause. Voltage drop may be the result of increased resistance, normal resistance, poor battery condition, good battery condition and or a heavy load placed on the battery.... like starting!!!!

In a normal “healthy” electrical system you will see voltage drop when you use the starter (or any other load). This is normal!!!! In a lab, if you knew battery specs and condition, wire size, length, material and connections, along with the specs for the starter and solenoid and the friction in the engine you could calculate the theoretical voltage drop. But if you see the theoretical too much drop you are back to testing each component! And if you saw no drop......you are again testing each component. And, by the way, in the field, this voltage test needs two people- one to run the ignition switch and one to do the testing. So testing for, and seeing voltage drop is like saying- yep it works or nope it doesn’t work.

But on the other hand one person (without a second person) can check the resistance in Ohms (probably a 1/10th so of a ohm in this case) of the cables and connections. When you see one that has a 1/10th or more resistance you have a suspect cable. In your case (with new ends) it may read as an open circuit. It will be easy enough to check the resistance of the old and new cable- check it connected and on the bench to make sure it wasn’t in the connection.

So yes both methods will work. That said, I’m sure one can use those buttery soft hands, wearing a nicely pressed button up shirt that doesn’t quite fit like it did a decade ago and sit at the desk below the faded and framed piece of paper on the wall with a few signatures on it. From that desk one could pontificate about theory and what the book said. If one had posted that they had calculated the “normal” voltage drop that the tractor would see when starting, and then what would be considered bad it would be useful. But I guess it’s more useful to know how long the letters have been after the last name. For conversation, while we are sitting at this nice desk......If you had a controlled load, and no ohm meter you could test voltage- this would be another way to “solve” for Ohms Law. That’s the theory. But, in reality, a starter and battery isn’t controlled.

The tractor isn’t behind a desk and doesn’t give up answers to letters after a name or a piece of paper on the wall. One must actually go out and diagnose. A systematic approach is best but some experience also helps. I could tell you about my “experience” or one could read the suggestions in the thread. On one hand you have suggestions like checking cables (post 2) and to eliminate variables by using jumper cables to bypass the tractor’s starter circuit.

On the other hand you have flawed theory that is light on detail or hard numbers like- “this much voltage drop means this but that much voltage drop means that” Why no detail? The variables are too many and the component specs in the are relatively unknown- translation- it would be hard to know what voltage drop was normal and what drop was an issue. Then, once you noticed the drop you don’t know if you have a bad starter, battery, switch/solenoid or cable.

Seems the more one DEMANDS you know what they are the less you need what they say.
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start #24  
Why don't you explain what is wrong with this way of measuring?

But please do a internet search before you post, try this Voltage Drop Testing

Sorry I don’t need the Internet....my experience does just fine. The problem was identified in post 2. But good luck with voltage drop testing. The theory works.....but your solution doesn’t.
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start #25  
Sorry I don稚 need the Internet....my experience does just fine. The problem was identified in post 2. But good luck with voltage drop testing. The theory works.....but your solution doesn稚.

For testing a component like a glow plug the Ohm meter is the way to go. And you can compare the Ohm readings, good.
But for circuit problems the voltage drop testing is the easy way.
If you want to use the Ohm meter for troubleshooting, go ahead. But if I measure a voltage drop of 5 Volts in a starting circuit, I know I have found a no start problem.

What are the Ohm values in a circuit for a no start? Do I have to disconnect wires? Are there any parallel circuits or shorts that mess up the readings?
A resistance can behave different (measuring with a multimeter) for micro amps than for a 250 Amps starter current.
For example; the dash lights come on bright but when the starter is engaged all goes dim, while the battery is good. A Ohm reading proves worthless in this situation. A voltage drop measurement would point you to the problem right away. Voltage drop measurements are straight forward and very easy to do if you understand the method.


Unfortunately you do not even look up Voltage Drop Testing on the Internet.

I have a electrical engineering education and a lot of experience in trouble shooting, also in farm equipment. I still learn every day and use the Internet to increase my skills.
But hey, I don't know everything already.
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start #26  
For testing a component like a glow plug the Ohm meter is the way to go. And you can compare the Ohm readings, good.
But for circuit problems the voltage drop testing is the easy way.
If you want to use the Ohm meter for troubleshooting, go ahead. But if I measure a voltage drop of 5 Volts in a starting circuit, I know I have found a no start problem.

What are the Ohm values in a circuit for a no start? Do I have to disconnect wires? Are there any parallel circuits or shorts that mess up the readings?
A resistance can behave different (measuring with a multimeter) for micro amps than for a 250 Amps starter current.
For example; the dash lights come on bright but when the starter is engaged all goes dim, while the battery is good. A Ohm reading proves worthless in this situation. A voltage drop measurement would point you to the problem right away. Voltage drop measurements are straight forward and very easy to do if you understand the method.


Unfortunately you do not even look up Voltage Drop Testing on the Internet.

I have a electrical engineering education and a lot of experience in trouble shooting, also in farm equipment. I still learn every day and use the Internet to increase my skills.
But hey, I don't know everything already.

You know far more than I do. I have to read the instruction manual every time I break out my ohm meter.
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start #27  
Congrats there! Glad to be of assistance. Worked at a lawn and garden sales and service for awhile. Learned even more then I'd known from working on my own cars, then started with my first compact diesel tractor and then another and now a diesel truck! When will it end!
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Congrats there! Glad to be of assistance. Worked at a lawn and garden sales and service for awhile. Learned even more then I'd known from working on my own cars, then started with my first compact diesel tractor and then another and now a diesel truck! When will it end!

Well I have a new problem. Once I got it started up and running and got the load up, the light for water in the fuel is coming on. I looked at the water separator, but the instructions on how to get the water out are turned around to the inside of the tractor. Does anyone have a shot of these instructions? Manual just says turn off the tractor and get the water out.
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Well I have a new problem. Once I got it started up and running and got the load up, the light for water in the fuel is coming on. I looked at the water separator, but the instructions on how to get the water out are turned around to the inside of the tractor. Does anyone have a shot of these instructions? Manual just says turn off the tractor and get the water out.

I guess I should also ask if there痴 any kind of safety start switch for water in the fuel that I could致e bypassed by jumping it?
 
   / 2538 HST Won't Start #30  
There isn't a drain or petcock on bottom to drain of the water? Mine don't have a separator, just fuel bowl that unscrews off. Hopefully someone else can chime in for assistance. At least you've made it through the electrical issue!
 

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