3 point back hoe

[3RRL]

Yeah, I think a PTO pump is something like four or five hundred bucks by itself?

 

[California]

Kubota 3pt hoe that he has used on his Deere 750. ... I know he has had it for about 10 years. ... $900.

Jump on it! I paid a lot more for probably the same Kubota hoe. If it's been on his JD 750 (a small tractor) for ten years without breaking it then it shouldn't hurt your larger Deere.

See my thread where I described researching mine, then buying it:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...03335-kubota-mystery-backhoe-does-anyone.html

I have a loader subframe clear back to the rear axle so I'm not worried about the tractor splitting at the bellhousing. And after I bought the hoe I learned it has limited dipperstick force, rated only 521 lbs, probably designed that way to limit the stress it can put on the small Kubota 20hp it was intended for. The breakout force (bucket curl) is 2064 lbs, normal for a small hoe, so that is what does all the work. It digs great in bone dry ground. I suggest review that hoe's manual to see if its ratings are similar.

My unit doesn't feel like it is working the tractor very hard - most of the stress goes to the hoe's own legs. Bouncing while driving around is probably a greater stress than digging, and bouncing is easy to avoid.

This rig sure beats digging a trench with a shovel!

 

[rural2]

No need to be so hostile! Your concern regarding my "sarcastic" post is duly noted as is your limited range of my "choices".
A much more effective response with me may have been to provide some relevant data supporting your preference for a sub frame attachment as opposed to 3ph attachment. Obviously my "personal" opinion and experience differs from yours. So maybe just a simple survey of some CUT dealers w/ratios to support your conclusions, or something.
Although I agree that a subframe attachement would be the better choice...
It is my current, personal opinion based on thirty years in heavy commercial construction and my more recent experience owning and operating the equipment listed in my sig. that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Until something/someone convinces me otherwise that is my current opinion right, wrong or otherwise, like it or not.

You can take the sarcastic head burried in the sand route or not.. it's your choice. Fact of the matter is.. 3pt hoes can break tractors in half. I've seen it.. Many here have. It doesn't happen as soon as you bolt it on.. it's usually a slow process of stresses that fatigue and crack the metal that culminates in a break once the metal distress reaches a point that is overcome by the next big flexing stress the hoe puts on it.

Manufacturers don't make hoe subframes just to pad costs.. there is a reason for them.

Soundguy

 

[rural2]

I do not recall asking for a reality check and why would I set up a level in order to watch someone else work my hoe when I can just sit in the seat myself. I am well aware there is movement, when it becomes excessive I re-set my stabilizers. Maybe we are talking two different things here???
I do not know anything about construction equipment manuals, however I have operated several full size hoes on occasion and I had, until a couple years ago, been around them on a daily basis. To attempt to compare a full size hoe to a CUT teaspoon is a gross mistake in my opinion. In thirty years I can count the number of non factory welds on booms, dippers and frames I have personally seen as less than ten, just not real common in my experience. Buckets are another matter entirely. Some of the hoes I am familiar with were fully depreciated, sloppy, nasty looking, wore out, hunks of junk w/tens of thousands of hours on them. 1500-3000 hours is just getting broke in with some of that stuff! So, in my experience you are mostly incorrect in that regard. I am aware of a couple problem prone makes and models, however they almost never made an appearance on a heavy commercial construction site, the few I recall that did show were usually brand new and didn't stick around all that long. The subcontractors doing the light excavation work were not stupid enough to buy or lease another one.
"won't wonder anymore" LOL! You really got me wondering now...
Enough of this, it is not relevant to the thread topic!

Why aren't more tractors broken in half from 3pt mounted hoe's?
They aren't used enough. Most manuals for construction equipment list 500 hours (or so) as the time to inspect for structural cracks. Usually around 1500-3000 hours a hoe will start to show small cracks at the weakest areas. If left unchecked, they will grow until you are the proud owner of a schizophrenic tractor.
If you want a reality check, put an operator on your 3pt hoe tractor and stand behind it with a stationary level that matches up to the top of the tires and watch as a full bucket is swung with the boom/stick extended. There is a LOT of flexing going on. You see that and you won't wonder anymore!

jb

 

[rural2]

3RRL, my apologies for previous posts

IMHO, if the hoe is in decent shape... Less than average chance you will see another deal like that in your life time.
Good luck

 

[RollTideRam]

I finally got a look at it today. It is in the back of his barn and kind of dirty. It has had some welding done to it, in fact part of the model# decal was messed up. It appears to be a Kubota 4530A. I googled several posibilities and that is the only one that worked. I only came up with three for sale ads though, no other info on it. JC

 

[RollTideRam]

I forgot to mention the bucket. I think it is a 24", really looked to big. JC

 

[john_bud]

I do not recall asking for a reality check and why would I set up a level in order to watch someone else work my hoe when I can just sit in the seat myself. I am well aware there is movement, when it becomes excessive I re-set my stabilizers. Maybe we are talking two different things here???
I do not know anything about construction equipment manuals, however I have operated several full size hoes on occasion and I had, until a couple years ago, been around them on a daily basis. To attempt to compare a full size hoe to a CUT teaspoon is a gross mistake in my opinion. In thirty years I can count the number of non factory welds on booms, dippers and frames I have personally seen as less than ten, just not real common in my experience. Buckets are another matter entirely. Some of the hoes I am familiar with were fully depreciated, sloppy, nasty looking, wore out, hunks of junk w/tens of thousands of hours on them. 1500-3000 hours is just getting broke in with some of that stuff! So, in my experience you are mostly incorrect in that regard. I am aware of a couple problem prone makes and models, however they almost never made an appearance on a heavy commercial construction site, the few I recall that did show were usually brand new and didn't stick around all that long. The subcontractors doing the light excavation work were not stupid enough to buy or lease another one.
"won't wonder anymore" LOL! You really got me wondering now...
Enough of this, it is not relevant to the thread topic!

Interesting,

Yes, I am talking about the transmission and differential castings twisting with the transmitted torque. Unless, you are able to look behind and underneath yourself while operating the hoe and have a visual point of reference, you won't be able to see how much those structural members are moving.

Let me get this straight, you freely admit to never reading a maintenance book on a hoe, but feel that I am wrong when quoting from the several I am familar with? I am making a "gross mistake" stating maintenance intervals (that you admit you know nothing about) of larger equipment when comparing to the 3pt hoe. Yet, most of your reply is comparing your experience (being "around") large construction equipment?

Ok, sounds good to me.

You have only seen 10 cracks in 30 years? Was that on 3pt mounted home owner quality light duty equipment or heavy duty construction hoes that have full frames carrying the entire load of the machine and the stresses of 5-6" diameter hydraulic cylinders?

However, I do agree completely that this discussion is not aiding the original poster and as such, I won't continue with it further.



RollTide, The 24" bucket is pretty common when the soils are soft. It's good to have it as larger buckets cost more than small ones. So, if you need / want a smaller one you can fairly cheaply get one.

It has some (ahem!!) welding on it? Some would tell you that is rare.... If the weld quality was good, it's not too much of a concern. Especially for the $$. I'd still get it. You can re-sell it for $1200-2000 fairly easily. Higher end would need to spend time sprucing it up and maybe fixing small things. New, they are in the 4500-6000 range.

jb

 

[Soundguy]

That wasn't hostile.. it just was plan non candy coated 'blunt'.

You want some numbers.. you go research them. However you can search here to find some evidence..

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...tor-can-break-half.html?highlight=broken+half

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...h-mounted-backhoes.html?highlight=broken+half

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-hoe-3-point-hitch.html?highlight=broken+half

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...oe-subframe-advice.html?highlight=broken+half

Hit a bunch of dealers and ask them about warranties and 3pt hoes with no subframe.

Some info here about subframes:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...eed-backhoe-advice.html?highlight=broken+half

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mahindra/51683-3-point-backhoes.html?highlight=broken+half

Never heard back from this guy.. but soulds like he had a 3pt hoe as well as the makings for a bad problem.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...l-housing-question.html?highlight=broken+half


BTDT on the construction equipment. I work for a GC.. we've got tons of equipment.. not one of them is currently a 3pt hoe...

You can do whatever you want with your money and equipment. I've said my peiece.. others have said there's. As John_Bud said.. this don't help the original poster much.. so with this.. I'll sign off on this thread. Personally.. I don't have any interest or financial stake in the condition of your equipment... also as a matter of personal preference.. i probably wouldn't buy a tractor that had significant run-time hours on a 3pt hoe.. In the end.. all you have to do is justify it to yourself.. not me. Sounds like you are already there.. so go for it.. don't worry about what anybody else says. That kind of decision is between you and your wallet.. besides. As i said.. they don't bust the tractor as soon as you bolt them on.. and they don't automatically, always bust the tractor. i said.. they increase the stress forces on the tractor thus raising the possibility for damage. Ya may never see a crack for as long as ya own it.. it's all a roll of the dice, and will have as much to do with the metalurgy of your tractor, and the guy running the sand cast mold that day.. depending on what he was thinking, plus all the past and future stresses onthe equipment all rolle dup into one huge mind boggling equation about if/when the tractor may break..e tc.

have a good one. If ya want hostile.. I'm sure there are plenty of sites that can serve that up.. in fact.. i know of one that would deffinately have a fe plates of that leftover int he fridge if ya needed some..

soundguy

No need to be so hostile! Your concern regarding my "sarcastic" post is duly noted as is your limited range of my "choices".
A much more effective response with me may have been to provide some relevant data supporting your preference for a sub frame attachment as opposed to 3ph attachment. Obviously my "personal" opinion and experience differs from yours. So maybe just a simple survey of some CUT dealers w/ratios to support your conclusions, or something.
Although I agree that a subframe attachement would be the better choice...
It is my current, personal opinion based on thirty years in heavy commercial construction and my more recent experience owning and operating the equipment listed in my sig. that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Until something/someone convinces me otherwise that is my current opinion right, wrong or otherwise, like it or not.

 

[hbaird]

I believe far, far, more hoe mounted tractors are damaged by being driven too fast over rough ground than by using the hoe. A hoe, or any other heavy object, cantilevered on either end of a tractor will put tremendous force on the bell housing of the tractor in motion. I suspect you can miss use a hoe and damage the tractor, but it would take something really special if the stabilizers are correctly in place. If anyone can show some vector diagrams defining the forces that can do any more damage than bouncing the front or rear end of the tractor off the ground I will admit my miss understanding of the problem. The rear wheels and the stabilizers provide four points of location for the hoe forces. If the operator isn't moving the forces don't go anywhere else on the tractor. On the other hand it only takes a small drop off or abrupt rise to get 50 to 100 G's. Even a small hoe can weigh 1000 LB or more, times the cantilever distance. It is easy to get enough force to break anything.
Harold