3 pt log splitter help needed

SmokyMtnMan · Dec 8, 2002

I have a Landpride 35 series rear blade with hydraulic off-set which I use the remote valves for. They work just fine with the blade.
As far as when the quick connects pop off, it's hard to tell. Except for the very first time I used it, the cylinder on the splitter doesn't even move now. I tie up the lever in the cab, go back to splitter and move lever on splitter back, i see the hoses jump a little as if being filled with fluid, cylinder on splitter doesn't move, then the quick connects pop off, first the 'in' side, then the other one.

Anonymous Poster · Dec 8, 2002

I am in the middle of building a 3pt splitter for my L3710 kubota, I bought a detent splitter control valve (open center)
from northern hyd. #2020, I also read in northern catalog not
to put quick connect on return line of a detent valve This may
be due to a safety reason, I read on a cal osha about a guy
who was KILLED by a male QC, the ball shot out like a bullet.
All i know is a detent splitter valve will work with quick connects (I have used one before) You're problem may be in
how you are connecting to hyd. on tractor, you're tractor is a
OPEN CENTER SYSTEM, in plain english all valves are in SERIES (oil flows thru valve when in neutral on to next valve)
To hook up splitter just disconnect POWER BEYOND hose at rear control valve, put a female QC on valve where hose was, put a male QC on the hose end, to connect splitter just
open this new QC ,attach hose from splitter IN valve to FEMALE QC on remote valve, the splitter OUT gets connected
to the power beyond hose Note if you have the stock kubota
remote valves this won't work, you would have to tap the loader valve power beyond circut instead hope this helps

MarkV · Dec 9, 2002

I don't know if this will be of any help because the whole hydraulic thing confuses me also. I have a 3 pt splitter with an open center valve that has a detent return and hooks to the tractor with quick connects. It has never been a problem. In my case my B21 does not have a remote valve but has an in-flow and return flow hydraulic connection point for the backhoe. This is where I hook up.

This makes me wonder if using the remote valve tied open will not let the fluid return until the pressure relief valve opens. When you raise your FEL it is going to continue to pressurize the cylinder until you let loose of the control or the relief valve opens. That relief setting may be to much for the connectors and more than you want for the splitter.

I think this is the same thing L3710GV is saying. You have to find a way to tap into a return line so that your tied back remote serves as the in-flow and another point is an unrestricted return. Or a way to tap into the in-flow and return flow lines leading to your remotes eliminating them from the system all together.

Now I bring this up as a question to those who understand the hydraulics better than I. If you have two remote valves could one be tied in one direction and the other in the opposite direction making an unrestricted circuit in an open center system?

MarkV

hazmat · Dec 9, 2002

<font color=blue>This makes me wonder if using the remote valve tied open will not let the fluid return until the pressure relief valve opens.</font color=blue>

A schematic would explain this much better than text, but I'll give it a try.

A typical open center spool valve has 4 connections. Supply from tractor, return to tractor, and for lack of better terminology, extend & retract. The remote valves typically have three positions, extend, nuetral & retract. When the valve is energized in the extend mode, fluid flows into one side of the cylinder extending it. As the cylinder extends, it pushes fluid out the other end & back to the valve via the "retract" port. the fluid then flows back to the tractor via the return port.

When the log splitter is hooked up, the valve simply goes inline from the extend port. The extend port on the remote is now the supply for the log splitter. The return on the log splitter is attached to the retract on the remote. The extend & retract ports are hooked up to the splitter cylinder.

When a valve is in extend mode, the retract port is open for the low pressure fluid, it does let the fluid return to the tractor.

Clear as mud eh?

Edit here:

Everywhere I say "return" it is better known as Power Beyond.

Anonymous Poster · Dec 9, 2002

The hyd systems on these compact tractors are not that hard to understand, Basicly hyd flow from pump goes to front hyd block where it is sent to loader valve (if the sloted valve is turned) thru the open center loader valve, out the POWER BEYOND port of loader valve, back to front hyd block, thru tractor case to rear hyd block (this is the small triangle cover under rh side of tractor) thru rear remotes valve if equiped, back in to rear hyd block, then finely thru the three point lift valve where it is returned to case thru a poppet valve. Basicly all control valves are in series (like a chain) pressure in the in port, PRESSURE back out the POWER BEYOND port of each control valve and on to the next control valve, so when you're wanting to connect a new control valve (log splitter backhoe etc.) you're just opening this pressure loop and adding another link to the chain. I saw in the other log splitter post the shop wanted to charge as much as the log splitter cost to give the guy a connection for his splitter, What a rip off to add one QC to the power beyond circut cost about $15, Hope this helps everybody understand these open center systems, if i'am wrong about anything feel free to correct me

BigEddy · Dec 9, 2002

I still think the problem is the detent. The detent works essentially like a relief valve built into the return circuit so that when the cylinder hits the end on the way back, the fluid pressure forces the handle to neutral. But instead of fluid flowing to case, it actuates the handle return. Only for an instant though, as then the handle is in neutral and the flow stops.
In splitting stroke, the tractor relief protects the system, and perhaps the splitter also has a relief valve.
On the return, the cylinder dead-ends, the pressure rises, and the handle pops to neutral. Still the tractor relief protects the system, and the detent forcing to neutral also keeps the pressure down.
So why doesn't it work with quick connects?
The only thing I can think of is that in the instant that the detent actuates, the pressure spikes, and blows off the quick connect before the tractor relief can operate. Sounds pretty far-fetched though.
Any better ideas - the engineer in me is puzzled.

ns_in_tex · Dec 9, 2002

Ok, I will try to tell you what I experienced today.
I hooked up my bush hog 3 point splitter with detent on return to my L4610. Attached the hoses to the #1 rear remote (tallest handle in the cab). Tied this handle forward. When I pulled the handlle on the splitter it started moving in the wrong direction which was extending the cylinder while in the detent position. I am thinking, no problem, just switch hoses, but I will let it fully extend & see if the detent pops off. No, at full extension, the cylinder loads up & the bypass is working under full load.
Then I switch the hoses & everything works properly. Detent release & all.

Now another hydraulic puzzle for me, I wish someone could explain.
I accidently switched my tilt cylinder hoses on my LA852 front loader. Pulled the joy stick to me & bucket tilted back. Pushed the joy stick away from me & the bucked went forward. Then pulled the joy stick to me & bucket still went forward. Could not even get it to level out with engine off & trying to release all pressure. I then switched the two hoses & everything went back to normal.
No it was not a disconnected quick connect. I had the hoses loose at a screwon fitting & did nothing to the quick disconnects..

hazmat · Dec 9, 2002

I think neal may be on to something. Swap the hoses. Also try bungeeing the lever in the other direction. Sometimes there is a little voo-doo involved.

SmokyMtnMan · Dec 9, 2002

In my Kubota 4610 manual under the section for Remote hydraulic system, there's a note under the heading "remote control valve lever"...it says
Important: Do not hold the lever in the 'pull' or 'push' postiong once the remote cylinder has reached the end of the stroke, as this will cause oil to flow through the relief valve. Forcing oil through the relief valve for extended periods of time will overheat the oil.

Isn't this what we're doing when we tie back the lever with a bungee cord?

I called Speeco and basically all i got from them is "Read your tractor manual"

I've hooked hoses up just like the directions shows.
My quick connects came from TSC. same size and type as the ones used for the offset on the rear blade.
Only difference i've found is that my hoses for the splitter are 1/2" and the ones for my Landpride blade is 3/8". but quick connects are same.

hazmat · Dec 9, 2002

<font color=blue>Do not hold the lever in the 'pull' or 'push' postiong once the remote cylinder has reached the end of the stroke, as this will cause oil to flow through the relief valve.

Isn't this what we're doing when we tie back the lever with a bungee cord?</font color=blue>

Yes & no, If the remote valve is in the push or pull position & the splitter valve is in nuetral, the oil will return to the tractor via the power beyond port on the splitter.

If you were to hold the splitter valve in extend position once the cylinder reached the end of the stroke, then you'd trigger the relief valve.