30 Amp fuse keeps blowing

SevenCorners · Sep 15, 2004

I am beginning to get the sinking feeling about making a bad decision buying this tractor. What next.....
The 30 Amp fuse for the Ampmeter keeps blowing. Makes no difference whether the key is on or off. With key off there is power to the fuse block and immediately the fuse blows. I can't get the engine started without the fuse in place, what do you suppose is wrong now?

beenthere · Sep 15, 2004

To find the short, make up a light bulb with two leads, that will plug into the fuse block. If what you say is happening, the light will come on. Then you can start to trace the wires, and disconnect things until the light goes off (no short) and find the culprit causing the short. Hope it works for you.
(If it was a Deere, I know what I would do with it, but expect that isn't possible for you to do).
Seriously, Good luck.

GRUMPA · Sep 15, 2004

If this is what yours looks like Wiring Diagram I would take off the wire that "GOES INTO" the Ampmeter. As you stated it makes no difference if the key is off or on and the fuse blows (correct me if I'm wrong). If there's more than one wire coming out of that 30amp fuse (which I hope not) disconnect 1 at a time and see if you can find the circuit that way. I'm going by this drawing and if its like mine its strictly theoritical.

GRUMPA · Sep 15, 2004

Need to add more here I forgot. If you disconnect the wire going into your ampmeter and it blows the fuse (with the wire off) its in that one length of wire. If it dosnt blow it re-connect the wire and disconnect the wire going out of it. If the fuse dosnt blow you know your ampmeter is OK. Then hook the wire back up and if it does blow I would say its your ignition switch.

SevenCorners · Sep 15, 2004

Thanks Grumpa, I have a short finder so I didn't have to make one, it was definitely a short, only I am not sure I found it if you know what I mean. It looked like it was a short to ground, cause when I wiggled a grounded wire below the steering wheel the bulb flickered, however there was also a cold solder on the instrument cluster I found after taking it off the body, so to make a complex story short, I soldered the cold solder, took off the connector on the ground, sanded down the metal, used dielectric grease and a new crimp. The light is off, put in a new fuse and so far it has not blown. I have to tally up my total hours troubleshooting and repairing vs working. 28 hours Repair 13 hours working. Ha over 2 to 1 sure hope this improves, I am thinking about going into business repairing these things, shoot at this rate I will be an expert in a couple of weeks!!!

Harrygoodwrench · Sep 15, 2004

Don't worry Seven Corners, most if any problems are during the first 50 hours I'm told. After that the "bugs" so to speak have been corrected. Your short sounds like a simple short to ground being that it doesn't matter if key on or not. Just recheck harness does not have a pinched wire. Other than that it sounds like you have it covered. Good luck with your 224( same as mine). I hope you get as happy with yours as I am with mine.

greg_g · Sep 15, 2004

( The 30 Amp fuse for the Ampmeter keeps blowing. Makes no difference whether the key is on or off. With key off there is power to the fuse block and immediately the fuse blows. I can't get the engine started without the fuse in place, what do you suppose is wrong now?)
Also be aware of a potential short in the ignition switch. I went through two Jinma switches in the 1st fifty hours. Didn't take me long to put in a Ford switch. Check out my Wiring Diagram. Works great, and adds the capability to keep the glow plugs energized in the START position.

//greg//

SevenCorners · Sep 15, 2004

Thanks guys, I am just leery that I "fixed" this one since I really didn't find the short, I just think I did lol.... I had an old Ford PU that kept burning Fuse boxes and after 3 changes and countless hours troubleshooting I gave up, never solved it, each time I thought it was fixed it proved me wrong. The good thing about the 224 is it's so simple, there isn't the miles of wires the truck had. I noticed that when I put back my gauge cluster the right side [in drivers seat] hold down is very very close to a ground on the instrument cluster. It does not appear to be a problem at least on mine but I can see how if the insulation around the connector is lose boom short....

johnk · Sep 15, 2004

I put the Ford ignition in mine also. Saves a lot of electrical problems down the road.

http://users.adelphia.net/~gizmo/

DavidBradley · Sep 16, 2004

Seven, I had the same problem with my FP2420. Fuse would last until I got the RPM above 1500, then it went. I removed all but the 30A and 20A fuses. The 20A supplies power to the gauges. I dont use the head lights, horn, turn signals, rear work light anyway. This eliminates a good bit of the wiring to check. I removed the wire that splits off from the ampmeter and goes to the ignition switch at the switch(yellow wire #5) I think and also disconnected the wire at the ignition switch that feeds the glow plugs(#12). Then I ran a wire direct from the battery with a 30A in-line fuse to the ignition switch where #5 was connected. I disconnected the ampmeter, and connected the two wires together with a small bolt, and taped it up good.
Since then none of the three fuses have blown. When the fuse was blowing, I could occasionally get a reading of .2 ohms at the ammeter, but only sometimes and if I bumped anything, it went away. I now have good voltage for charging the battery now, and will replace the ampmeter. I didnt change all this wiring at one time, but eliminated 1 circuit at a time. If you still have problems with the fuse blowing, try taking the ampmeter out of the circiut first by removing the wires from the ampmeter and connecting them together. You can still check the charging voltage with a voltmeter, it should read from around 12.8 to 14.5 volts when charging. The battery needs very little charging except after cranking, as there is really no load on the system unless you have the lights on, or blow the horn a lot. Sorry this is so long. Hope it helps

Dave

SevenCorners · Sep 16, 2004

Good info, thanks I am leaning towards getting a new ignition switch. I don't like the cheap feel of the current one. David has some very good advice. I have printed out this post and will use it if there is a next time.

GRUMPA · Sep 16, 2004

SevenCorners,

I dont know if you have this info yet but here it is anyway.
Ford Keyswitch E7NN11N501AB
(Wire Terminal change is required)
Alternate #C7NN11501AB
I would consider changing it BEFORE there is a problem since it seems they arent all that great to begin with.

SevenCorners · Sep 16, 2004

Well same problem this morning. Ran it around the property no problem till I shut it down. Same thing main fuse 30 amp blown, power at terminal on fuse block even after key is off. Greg does this sound like key switch problem? Can I get key switch locally?

SevenCorners · Sep 16, 2004

I want to add a little more info. I spent a couple of more hours troubleshooting, I took the blown fuse out of the 30amp holder, I measure accross the holder with ignition off, 12.3v. I then measured off the load side [right faceing engine] and got 12.3v. with ignition off.

This seems correct since it is a direct feed from the battery via the starter. It is wire #(2) in the wiring diagram found here Wiring Diagram

Wire # (3) goes out of the fuse block and into the ampmeter, I have the one instrument cluster. I have a plug where 3 plugs into wire # (5) and (4). Wire (5) goes into the ignition switch. Wire (4) goes into the alternator.
David took wire (5) off ignition and ran a wire direct from source with a inline 30amp fuse. He connected this to the ignition switch. I am thinking about trying this tomorrow. David you also said you connected the two wires together ( I disconnected the ampmeter, and connected the two wires together with a small bolt, and taped it up good. ) Were they the two wires on the back of the instument cluster? Please see picture
I am still leaning toward the ignition switch as the culprit. I ordered one today it won't be here till next week, any thoughts here on what sounds like the problem? Greg does this sound like "classic" ignition switch failure?

Thanks

JohnS · Sep 16, 2004

Don't dispare. Most issues are found within the first 25hrs of use. After that, it seems like they get in a groove, and only need normal maintenance.

greg_g · Sep 16, 2004

( Greg does this sound like key switch problem? Can I get key switch locally?)
Whether or not it actually resolves your specific problem, a Ford switch is $13 well spent. Once installed, it should be good for the life of the tractor. If the fuse problem persists, at least you KNOW that it's not the cheap Jinma switch. My guess is that a new ignition switch should fixya rightup

And yes. Those switches have been used on Fords at least since the 50s. Any decent farm store should have them on a peg, saving you big bucks over getting one from NewHolland.

//greg//

bluechip · Sep 16, 2004

Gavin,
I think Dave is talking about individual gages, not the cluster. You may have a defective cluster panel or ignition switch. Since it happens when you shut down I bet on the switch, you can ohm it out to see if there is a short. Since it is mounted in fiberglass, I'm not sure how it gets to ground, as far as I recall none of the terminals on the switch should be grounded.

Harrygoodwrench · Sep 16, 2004

I would just like to add my input. Here it is........the ammeter would not likely be the culprit as this type device would either be a dead short or an open but not likely intermittant. the key switch IS a likely intermittant culprit due to is movable contacts.
With that said there is one more remote possibility........you are aware the engine will/should continue running once started with no battery voltage. The glow plugs are energized on this type china switch only "just before" the cranking position. Now if the ignition switch was keeping the glow plugs energized after you let key go this could also blow fuse. Hopefully if this is the case it has not burned out the glow plugs, but then agian if glow plugs burned out the fuse would stop blowing and a hard start would be the concern. . What I leading to is if the switch is keeping current going to the glow plugs the fuse will open or glow plugs??? Catch my drift? Again the switch is defective. The new design Ford switch keeps the glow plugs energized in crank also so this will help in starting in cold weather. I still have the china switch but wired in a realy so the key switch only controls the glow plugs via a small current thru the realy, added a push button switch for manual operation(gets real cold in Northeast in winter). Different strokes, different folks.
With all this said the key switch sounds like the part you need unless there is a wire shorting as when hitting a bump.

DavidBradley · Sep 16, 2004

7, I do have the individual gauges as someone posted. But to answer your question and maybe help with your problem, disconnecting those two wires in the picture from the terminals and connecting them together with a small bolt and nut would be the same thing I did. Someone posted about ampmeters not having intermittent shorts, well mine did. I disconnected wires and replaced fuses for a while. Since disconnecting the ampmeter, I have put about 30 hrs on it with no more blown fuses. If you are concerned about the switch, get, or make some jumper wires, disconnect all the wires to the switch, hot wire it, and see if you still have the problem, if so then you can replace the switch, or you can replace it anyway. My tractor doesnt seem to need the glow plugs in the warm weather. So that is not a factor with me now. I have about 20 or so 30Amp fuses slightly used, that I will mail you for free if you need them. Now can some one tell me what light bulbs to use to keep the cheap taillight lens from melting. The Homier service rep said they have fix for it that routes the cooling system back to the lights to keep them cool. You got to have a sense of humor to be a customer rep for a company that sells these tractors to people like me. Don't worry 7, it will all work out. Excepting for the gauges, these tractors really dont need much wiring. If you have a riding mower, they dont have fuel, Amp, Oil, tach, temp, meters. And are basically the same. You sit on the seat, put the key in, start the engine and go. Now I really wouldnt want to run my tractror without the temp and oil, meters and the tach. Keep on trying, you'll eventually find the intermittent short. Sorry for the long post, but nothing much to do while a hurricane is going by. If I can help you just ask, many on this board have help me with some of my problems.

Dave

SevenCorners · Sep 16, 2004

Thanks for the replys. This is really a great board. I ordered the key switch shipped ground so it will be early next week. Probably good money spent, hopefully will correct problem if not at least I can eliminate it. For now I needed to start the tractor so I jumped the starter selonid. I am right in assuming that a deisel only needs electricity for the starter, unlike a gas which requires constant juice for spark?