3625 /(20) front hub leak

[Toivosan]

I have a 2017 Branson 3625 tractor , I believe its 3620 in US. Only 108 hr on it and the front hubs started to leak. I bought it last year with 46 hours on it and have used it for FEL work mainly. First owner bought it new but almost didnt use it because of health issues. I changed all oils and filters on 50 hours, cause these were 6 years old..

I plan to make a topic of my tractor to share experience and improvement I have made.

As said, front hub seals are leaking and I plan to change the seals. But from this forum and some Youtube videos I have found that 2017 models didnt have too good seals and bearings at all. That bearing failure causes seal failure and leaking. Should I replace the bearings also and use some high-quality ones if they are widely common size and freely available from bearing shop etc.

Our Branson dealer is 2 hours drive from me and TYM dealer is about an hour. I dont have suitable transport to take the tractor to dealer and it will cost a fortune if they will come to my place to make the repairs. So most probably my friend who is ex-mechanic and heavy equipment operator will perform this job but I will have to get parts for him.

I will order hub seals, or some seal kit for front axle from the dealer but maybe not bearings. If the bearings are common-size then probably I will find better ones cheaper from specialized bearing dealer.
Am I right?

Thanks for now

 

[ptsg]

The bearings are indeed just common ball bearings. 6208 and 6209, accordingly to the parts manual for the 25 series but you may need to confirm once you pull the old ones out.

This actual part of the issue, they just use regular ball bearings and so does a lot of other brands, which don't really like side loads at all and with the amount of steering angle these tractors have, those do see a lot of side loads.

I suppose quality bearings would make it last longer.

A better alternative would be to use either angular contact ball bearings or tapered roller bearings, however, these would require shims to set just the right end play so it lasts a long time.

This is actually something I would like to try if I have issues with front wheel bearings. I'm pretty positive you can get angular contact ball bearings in the same size as the regular ball bearings they use there.

 

[tacticalturnip]

I don't have the answer regarding the bearings, but I look forward to seeing your machine and the things you've done to it and with it.

Welcome to TBN! I thought the 25 series was sold here at some point, but a quick Google shows your tractor looks like a 20 series here so you're probably right.

 

[ning]

The bearings are indeed just common ball bearings. 6208 and 6209, accordingly to the parts manual for the 25 series.

This actual part of the issue, they just use regular ball bearings and so does a lot of other brands, which don't really like side loads at all and with the amount of steering angle these tractors have, those do see a lot of side loads.

I suppose quality bearings would make it last longer.

A better alternative would be to use either angular contact ball bearings or tapered roller bearings, however, these would require shims to set just the right end play so it lasts a long time.

This is actually something I would like to try if I have issues with front wheel bearings. I'm pretty positive you can get angular contact ball bearings in the same size as the regular ball bearings they use there.

I don't know anything about bearings other than "find what was in it and replace it" so I'm following along to learn.

I see the 6208 & 6209 look like this, more or less:

they supposedly "accommodate radial and axial loads in both directions"

A particular "single row angular contact ball bearing" looks like

here there's obviously more of a shoulder on one side, which to my inexperienced eye looks like in this orientation it's going to support an axle trying to dip to the left (left down, right up)?

I'm curious why in the 6208 there's a slight dip top & bottom, while in this angular contact bearing there's a big shoulder on one side and absolutely nothing on the other, the cage

Then there's "four-point contact ball bearings"

these look to me like the recess in the outer ring is very similar to the 6208, and the inner ring recess is also similar though it may be two-part. How are these "4-point" different than the 6208?

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I have a 2017 Branson 3625 tractor , I believe its 3620 in US. Only 108 hr on it and the front hubs started to leak. I bought it last year with 46 hours on it and have used it for FEL work mainly. First owner bought it new but almost didnt use it because of health issues. I changed all oils and filters on 50 hours, cause these were 6 years old..

I plan to make a topic of my tractor to share experience and improvement I have made.

As said, front hub seals are leaking and I plan to change the seals. But from this forum and some Youtube videos I have found that 2017 models didnt have too good seals and bearings at all. That bearing failure causes seal failure and leaking. Should I replace the bearings also and use some high-quality ones if they are widely common size and freely available from bearing shop etc.

Our Branson dealer is 2 hours drive from me and TYM dealer is about an hour. I dont have suitable transport to take the tractor to dealer and it will cost a fortune if they will come to my place to make the repairs. So most probably my friend who is ex-mechanic and heavy equipment operator will perform this job but I will have to get parts for him.

I will order hub seals, or some seal kit for front axle from the dealer but maybe not bearings. If the bearings are common-size then probably I will find better ones cheaper from specialized bearing dealer.
Am I right?

Thanks for now

There is a lot of misinformation out there. I don't think the "2017 models" have any higher number of issues than any other manufacturer, or year. Some folks who have abused their machines (any brand) then take to the internet to blame the equipment for lack of operator skills. Not pointing at you, but definitely some of the "internet experts" have done this. We have seen this repeat itself on this forum for years.

I have a 2017 model year 3725. I'm just over 400 hours now, bought it brand new in 2017. I have no leaks coming from my front hubs, or anywhere else. I certainly don't baby it, but I'm not abusing it either. I've picked up and carried plenty of heavy loads with the FEL, but I've always had a counter weight on the 3 pt hitch.

If you can manage the down time, I would take the front hubs apart and inspect the bearings first, before ordering new ones. Your bearings may be fine. Nothing stopping you from ordering the seal kits and having them on hand before you take the hubs apart. That way, if the bearings are fine, you can just reseal the hubs and you're back in business.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I don't have the answer regarding the bearings, but I look forward to seeing your machine and the things you've done to it and with it.

Welcome to TBN! I thought the 25 series was sold here at some point, but a quick Google shows your tractor looks like a 20 series here so you're probably right.

The 25 series was sold here for a very short period in 2017. It didn't sell as well as the 20 series because it had more features, was more expensive, and looked almost identical to the 20 series. Without a knowledgeable sales staff on hand to point out the differences, (which very few Branson dealers had) buyers just opted for the "cheaper" 20 series. Thus, 25 series sales were poor in comparison, so corp pulled the model line.

 

[tacticalturnip]

The 25 series was sold here for a very short period in 2017. It didn't sell as well as the 20 series because it had more features, was more expensive, and looked almost identical to the 20 series. Without a knowledgeable sales staff on hand to point out the differences, (which very few Branson dealers had) buyers just opted for the "cheaper" 20 series. Thus, 25 series sales were poor in comparison, so corp pulled the model line.

Thank you for the history lesson; I imagine it was probably a value next to outfitting a 20 series with the equivalent options. Your description makes me think of the Kioti CK-20 and CK-20SE lines.

 

[CalG]

I was having fluid leaking from the wheel axle on the Hurlimann some years back/

It turned out to be grass wrapped into the sealing surfaces.

I picked out the grass with a hook scribe (CAREFULLY!) and the fluid leak healed up.

jess say'in

 

[ning]

Thank you for the history lesson; I imagine it was probably a value next to outfitting a 20 series with the equivalent options. Your description makes me think of the Kioti CK-20 and CK-20SE lines.

From what I recall, the difference between the 3725h and the 3520h (both open station) was a different engine and a few horsepower for a couple thousand dollars.
Both were on the lot when I was shopping and I couldn't justify the difference when I bought the 3520h, though I had already come up 5k+ from my original budget so there may've been differences that I had figured I was good enough, so much more than a k b3301 at the same price already

Were there other significant differences?

Looking at these two brochures - 20 series, 25 series - they may have been very slightly different chassis but if so they're within a percent of each other in most dimensions which would make any difference kinda bizarre. Looks like the 3725 may've had another gpm of hydraulic flow.

 

[ptsg]

I don't know anything about bearings other than "find what was in it and replace it" so I'm following along to learn.

I see the 6208 & 6209 look like this, more or less:
View attachment 1330865
they supposedly "accommodate radial and axial loads in both directions"

A particular "single row angular contact ball bearing" looks like
View attachment 1330866
here there's obviously more of a shoulder on one side, which to my inexperienced eye looks like in this orientation it's going to support an axle trying to dip to the left (left down, right up)?

I'm curious why in the 6208 there's a slight dip top & bottom, while in this angular contact bearing there's a big shoulder on one side and absolutely nothing on the other, the cage

Then there's "four-point contact ball bearings"
View attachment 1330867
these look to me like the recess in the outer ring is very similar to the 6208, and the inner ring recess is also similar though it may be two-part. How are these "4-point" different than the 6208?

Think about angular contact bearings just like the tapered roller bearings that you have on a trailer hub. You have two "facing each other" to hold the wheel in place. The tapered roller bearings, since it has rollers, will have much higher capacities.

The angular contact ball bearings, provide an angular ball contact area so the supports higher side loads, hence the name. These, much like the tapered roller bearings, needs two bearings working "against" each other to support the loads. As a single bearing, it will only support side load in one direction. They will literally fall apart if side load is applied in the opposite direction.

The regular ball bearings provide more contact area on "top" to handle high radial loads. These can handle a little bit of side loads but definitely not as much as the other options.

Those 4 point contact ball bearings, have a split inner race that allows them to support side loads in both directions. Essentially built like an angular contact bearing but can support loads in both directions.

 

[ning]

Those 4 point contact ball bearings, have a split inner race that allows them to support side loads in both directions. Essentially built like an angular contact bearing but can support loads in both directions.

Is the inner race split so that it can be deep enough for the side load support and still be able to assemble it?

 

[ptsg]

Is the inner race split so that it can be deep enough for the side load support and still be able to assemble it?

Yes. That's exactly it.

 

[Toivosan]

Thanks everybody, specially "Ptsg" for sharing useful information.

I didnt mention that I am from Europe, so we only have 25 series but it seems to be 95% same as 20 in US. But that another topic.

I am no hurry with seal replacement, cause I use my tractor very little, specially in colder periods and it will not leak when not in use.
I will educate myself a little on different bearings and their availability. As far as I quickly checked, same size different style bearings are available... as one mentioned I may not have to change the bearings but I want to be ready for that if needed.

 

[ericm979]

Were there other significant differences?

My dealer said the DPF+DOC had more catalyst than the 20 series and the front axle was wider or had bigger extensions bolted on. The PTO and cruise control switches were on the fender while the 20 series had them on the dash. Also it came with two rear remotes and a block heater but I think my dealer added those as a way to help differentiate them from the 20.

 

[Toivosan]

Some months are gone by... but we got the seal replacement done before christmas.

It was quite an easy operation, althought I didnt do it myself.
The only ??? moment was when we got the hub disassembled and found that new seals dont fit on the shaft. New seal, in factory package, correct part nr was way smaller on inner diameter and also much thicker-beefier than the old one.

Several options were on the table and I almost took the hubs to machinist to take down some material from the shaft but just then my friend who did the repair, discovered there was a thin sleeve on the shaft on witch the old seal was placed.

We got it off the shaft and then new seal went perfectly on.
The sleeve was rubber coated from inside, factory piece. The machinist said he has seen some solutions like this before. Most probably its made replaceable cause the seal may wear some grooves on shaft and it may start leaking. With a thin sleeve, you can replace both seal and the sleeve and the shaft preserves its surface.
Somewhy they dont use this solution anymore and also the dealer didnt mention a thing about it?

Anyway, the new thicker and stronger seal went on and I also replaced the bearings. Some china stuff was in there before, now I put German premium brand FAG. Luckily these are very common bearings, 2+2 cost only 45 $.
2 big O rings and a silicone as it was before and together it went.
No leakes so far but we have winter time with snow and cold weather, we`ll see in summertime when the oil is thinner and tractor gets some workload.

Thanks for everybody for good advice and I will try to start a new topic about my tractor in some close times. Just found out that its super-easy to ad pictures.

Greetings

 

[ptsg]

Thanks for the update. Indeed the bearings are very common and cheap, even the good ones.

I was just checking some part numbers regarding the seal, since it's the same for my tractor so this post had my attention. Anyway, it seems that the one you got is the new updated seal.

Not sure it's a good change since the new one can wear a groove on the spindle over time just like it was explained to you while the 2 piece seal won't let that happening. Time will tell I suppose.

I'm at around 500 hours and still no signs of having issues with the seals or bearings.

EDIT: If you go on TYM Tractors UK, they have a very nice parts page with the parts catalogue and prices. TYM Tractors - Parts

 

[Toivosan]

Jep, new seal may wear some groove into shaft surface but my machinist said there is enough room and material to machine future damaged area down, make a new sleeve, hot-mount it on the shaft and machine it into correct size. And it can be done over-and over again if needed.

But I doubt that I can wear this groove in... and I have much more confidence in new, improved design seal. We`ll see