378 years of family farming!!!

[MossRoad]

Granted to them by King Charles I... bet the native Americans were pleased to learn that the Europeans had the god given right to take what they wanted.

Look back at history. The only constant in life is change. Learn, adapt, survive or falter.

 

[dave1949]

Many good points. Much of the conflict surrounding farms and resulting regulations arose in concert with industrial-scale farming - often for good reasons. I think there is a big distinction to remember in comparing farming in the 1950's vs now.

There have been two generations of farmers now that have been taught 'get big or get out' is the solution. What has that really brought us and what have we lost? IMO we are slowly painting ourselves into a corner.

The price per hundred wt. for raw milk is a total economic mystery to me. I read about Maine dairy farms that struggle on and how many have closed over the past 20 years. Globally traded grain and grain futures is no doubt on such a massive scale, that the production of even one mega-farm is nothing in comparison. Local and regional markets don't have much influence it seems.
Dave.

 

[nwbearcat]

I really struggle with the terms such as "industrial scale" farms, factory farms, or the like. Every farm that I've been involved with is a factory, even your garden is a factory. You take raw materials, complete some processes, and output a finished product, some of which may be raw materials for another process. That's a factory. Many see the increasing size of some operations to be a bad thing. In many respects those guys are there because they've been successful, taken risks, and subsequently been rewarded for those actions. I can't hold that against them. I mean in the end do we really resent Dewalt, Apple, Nike, John Deere, Dodge, GM, Ford, Mack, Bobcat or any number of businesses who have found success, and grown their businesses while their competitors have come and gone enough to vote with our pocketbooks for the "little guy"? No, we often find ourselves actually sourcing our needs through the most reliable or cost effective supplier, or whatever other reason trips your trigger.

Farming is a risky business, there are some that are not willing to accept that risk, and some that are. I'm willing to support anyone willing to produce a crop in a sustainable manner. By that I mean utilizing any of the technologies or crop protection methods that produces the most with the least impact to the enviroment.

Yes we are painting ourselves in a corner, and like I've said, our regulation happy world is eventually going to require that someone's ideal will dictate the production practices that all will follow. As producers, the prices that we receive or pay for grain in the country is driven by global markets. It's really an interesting, yet frustrating process at times. Prices are determined by total demand for the grain, estimated production at any point for that commodity around the world, and world-wide carryover stocks. What happens on a 40A field in IA has little to influence much of anything, and outside of using forward contracts, hedging, or other pricing methods. But that is only for his crops, not anyone elses. Even a 10,000A grower has little/any individual impact on the overall markets. There are some local and regional market influences, but not huge, much is driven by the bigger picture.

 

[dave1949]

For me industrial-scale and factory, as applied to farming, is when the required size of the operation to achieve profitability far exceeds what a farm family can do alone. Even extended farm families, brothers for instance, may not have the man-power to operate at that scale depending on what type of farming is being done. The long term capital investment, the financial deep pockets via leverage, bond issues or whatever, to weather a couple bad years; those are beyond the reach of a family farm.

Farming has some unique characteristics not shared by other industries. The primary one is we put the products into our mouths and depend on those products to remain alive. So, yes I resent it if an industrial-scale farm decides that to be profitable, they have to adopt practices that are not in my best interest. It's hard to find cheery news about industrial-scale agriculture. GMO seeds, pesticide residues, food contamination, reduced nutrition values, land and water degradation; not good stuff in general. But, when we go into the supermarket and buy chicken on sale for $.69/lb, or pork at $1.29/lb; we don't count the negative costs.

Many would argue against the sustainability of large-scale farming as it is currently practiced. There is a lot of focus on profitablity and less and less on quality. Any endeavor needs to be profitable, but it has to make long term sense. Buying milk solids from China to put in pet food - how can that make sense while dairies can't keep their barn doors open here? Who even knew until pets started getting sick? Our food commodity markets are controlled by global concerns which are profit driven. They are so far removed from the end consumers, it's a total disconnect. Compare buying pre-cut and packaged beef in a market to buying a quarter of a steer from a local farm. There is no comparison on any level. One is an industrial process and the other is a neighbor.

Trying not to rant
Dave.

 

[Obed]

Growing up on a farm, I was taught that the small farmer cannot make a living by farming. My grandfather and father both worked fulltime jobs and farmed in the evenings and weekends, basically working many long long hours. I left the farm for college and the city and never returned. All my siblings are also city dwellers. My dad still farms his 115 acres but is slowing down due to age and health. The farm will be sold when he dies; I would like to keep some of the land but would have to buy out the other heirs to do so, something I won't be able to do. I live 75 miles away from the family farm in "the city."

Joe Salatin wrote a great book called You Can Farm that provides a view of farming that I never considered. Joe has proved that it is possible to make a living as a small farmer. However, our government beaurocracies have made an already difficult endeavor even harder.

As a teenager, I owned my own cattle. I spent $33 and bought 1/3 of a white heifer when I was 11. My brother bought the other 2/3 of the heifer. I later bought my brother's 2/3 and built up a few head of cattle little by little. By the time I was in college, I would sell one cow per year to help out on my living expenses.

What was hard to swallow, was selling a steer for 40 cents/pound and seeing hamburger a the supermarket selling for $2.50/pound and seeing other beef parts selling for $4.00+/pound. Here's the trouble. Because of the government regulations, I could not take a steer to the slaughter house, have the meat packaged, and sell the beef to my neighbor and get the same prices for the meat that Kroger gets. No, I was forced to sell my cows at wholesale prices at the stock market for $0.40/pound which was 1/10 of the price that Kroger got. I can relate to Joe Salatin's article Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal.

Obed

 

[Obed]

So, yes I resent it if an industrial-scale farm decides that to be profitable, they have to adopt practices that are not in my best interest. It's hard to find cheery news about industrial-scale agriculture. ... Dave.

Dave, I think you would find this article interesting: Sound Science is Killing Us.



Obed

 

[two_bit_score]

Money will be gone in no time. It's all about the land. Too bad so many don't realize it until it's too late.

 

[1950T]

i dont get the point of the sow in the farrowing crate i the article tho. they are to keep the sows from rolling over on and killing the piglets as they nurse. have been in use for years.

 

[Obed]

i dont get the point of the sow in the farrowing crate i the article tho. they are to keep the sows from rolling over on and killing the piglets as they nurse. have been in use for years.

I believe point is that the crate is a completely unnatural environment that has no resemblance with what caused hogs to survive and prosper in nature. We raised a few hogs when I was growing up. We NEVER had a sow roll over on and kill a piglet as it nursed. NEVER. Pigs are extremely smart animals. The sows know how to protect their young just as most animals do. Such a crate is not required for dogs or cats so why pigs? Because pigs are put in hog houses in such close quarters that they don't have room to roll over without killing their young. That's not the pig's fault; it's ours. In fact, if you made people live in such close quarters, you'd have to put human mothers in the same type of crates to keep a mother from smothering her babies when she's asleep.

If the government would allow me to sell pork to my next door neighbor, then I could sell it at the same price as Kroger, could raise the pig in a healthy, natural outdoor environment, the pig could live life in an environment suited for it, and I could still make a profit without needing to go into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. People in the US raised food this way for 300+ years and thrived without widespread food bourne epidemics regularly breaking out. The government regulations are only necessary because our food is being raised in artificial environments that encourage the outbreaks of food bourne epidemics. If all of us who were interested could raise and sell naturally grown food to our neighbors without government interference, we wouldn't have to flock to the cities to make a living. And, it would be much harder for bio-terrorists to attack our food supply.

Obed

 

[1950T]

obed i agree with every word. was just stating the obvious in a HOG HOUSE. we allways raised pigs outside on the old small barnyard that was cemented in with heated floor where the hog house was. they had a area 200x200 to roam in. went to feed and water as they pleased. this was when i was in highschool for my FFA ham bacon egg sale hogs.