3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO

   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #11  
What about self powering the snowblower with a 20hp engine?

That may make this easier. You'd have to run start, kill and throttle controls up the loader arm back to the area of the valve.

Regards,
Chris
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #12  
That is the main problem with configuring a snow blower for front mounting. The extra hardware needed to make it work quickly escalates the price for the snow blower coming right out of the starting gate. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif This is a prime consideration for a lower priced 3-point mounted unit.

If front mounted snow blowers were inexpensive everyone here at the TBN web site would own one including myself.

Good luck with your project I hope you can figure a way to make it happen within your budget.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #13  
What size tractor are you planning to put this on?

Your numbers indicate 40 GPM and 500 #-ft of torque. 500 lbs-ft is a ton of torque! Think about it, Dodge Vipers and big turbo diesels make that kind of juice. And their engines are 5+ literes.

Are you sure your calculations are right? It just seems like a lot of torque feeding a snowblower impeller. Unless of course your blower is going to be really BIG?
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #14  
Pks:

If he is going to use the blower in Houghton-Hancock, it better be BIG.

That is BIG SNOW COUNTRY.

My brother in law graduated from Michigan Tech. He is a ME with Ford. All there is to do up there in the winter is school, party and drink beer.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #15  
Re: 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/fr

The hydraulic idea would be best, even given expense. Then you do not have to worry about the pto shaft hitting anything.

Another idea, is to fashion a multi piece drive shaft, much like you would find on a long-bed xcab pickup. Run the first shaft section from the mid-pto to the front of the tractor. End that shaft at a pillow block. Run a second shaft from the pillow block to your attachment. The second shaft shold be able to expand and collapse, just like a regular pto shaft. With a u-joint at the pillow block, you should have some flexibility to raise and lower the loader arms.

If you got fancy, you could be a hydraulic limit switch on the loader arms, limiting how high it can lift while the snowblower is installed on the loader.

Go out and look under a pickup, or a big moving type van. The engine/tranny is effectively in a fixed position. The driveshaft leaves the tranny, and goes to a pillow block partway to the rear of the truck. The pillowblock is in a fixed position, attached to a frame crossmember.

From that point, the drive saft connects to the pillow block with a u-joint. It terminates at the rear axle. Note, the rear axle can and does move up and down.

Shazam!

Another thing, as long as you have to pull the loader bucket... Add the universal skidsteer attachment to the loader arms, bucket, and snow blower. It'll be a lot easy to align, install, and remove the bucket and snow blower.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #16  
Daryl,

That's basically what I was trying to ferrit out. I too did my undergrad in the UP and yes 300+ inches a year is a lot. But Ed really didn't mention specific sizes. I think he mentioned a "...beast".

For up there and his "beast" notation... I suppose he's working with a 50+ inch impeller. I just wanted to make sure that's all. My ME background tells me his PTO shaft is going to look more like a two inch diameter driveline.

It will be interesting to see what Ed comes up with.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Re: limiting FEL MOVEMENT

I was thinking about the safety involved with the FEL being raised to high and brainstormed the following.
1. Use a chain to limit the upward movement.
2. Disconnect the tilt control on the FEL

what do you think of this? Would this make sure the operator wouldn't break the drive shaft. Also, if there were drive shaft loops under the tractor like on racing vehicles then it would at least make a drive breakage less costly.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #18  
Re: limiting FEL MOVEMENT

Ed,

Since the snow blower was originally for a 3 pt mount, then I'll assume it has a PTO drive attachment yoke in the unit's center (left to right). If so, then you could supply a drive line (PTO shaft) to that location. The shaft would need to be supported at the front of the tractor. That front support would be aft of a universal joint which would allow for raising the blower unit.

The amount of lift would be somewhat more than you would normally see at the 3 pt. This is due to my assumption that (on the 3 pt) the distance between the blower and the PTO (on the tractor) is less than the my assumed distance from the loader mounted blower and the proposed PTO location on the front of the tractor.

In other words, if the the blower were at the same distance on the loader as it was on the 3 pt lift, you could lift it approximately that much. The angles in the PTO shaft universal joints can handle that. As a rule of thumb, as long as the u-joint angles, in the loader setup, do not exceed the angles created by the 3 pt lift, you'll be OK.

I think the proposed location for the PTO shaft, front support bearing, would be best if it were to allow the new front u-joint to be in front of any frame or cowling by about 2 inches.

There's one thing that must also be mentioned. PTO shafts, like the one on my 3 pt finish mower, can extend and contract like a slip joint. My mower's PTO shaft can go from 20 inches to about 38 inches. A shaft like that might be necessary in your situation. I think you'd be able to raise the blower with the loader arms about 20 inches before the u-joint angles went to the extremes.

The operation of the loader arms must be limited is some fashion. I think your idea of a chain is perfect. You might consider adding a limit switch to turn on a light for the operator. Also, if $ allows, you can get hydraulic travel limiters that stop the flow of oil when an actuator reaches a specific position. So you could stop the flow of oil to the lift cylinders after they traveled a predetermined length.

What tractor are you putting this on?

Are the hydraulics operated by electric solenoids?

For a couple hundred bucks, you could purchase an electricly operated hydraulic valve that would raise the loader arms a certain amount and then automatically stop raising. An electrical limit switch would supply the signal to the solenoid and tell it to turn off the oil flow, during the raise cycle. The same could be set up for the lowering cycle. That way the operator would flip the switch into the UP position and the blower would raise to its predetermined height and then stop. The switch would then return to the normal "off" position. This is the same concept as used in today's new cars on the driverside window. Hit the switch (but not hold it) and the window goes down all the way down.

Your idea of drive shaft collars, for safety, is good too. I will guess that the IHRA has guidelines for size, spacing, strength etc.

I rather envy your project. My ME senior project was to design and build an antenna/probe for a space satellite. I think it launched on a Delta 4 rocket in June '02.

I like snow blowers better. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Good luck.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #19  
Re: limiting FEL MOVEMENT

Pks:

You could run even more extreme angles on the drive line by incorporating a Double Cardan joint in the drive line or opting for CV Joints. The limiting factor in deflection on a standard U joint is when the yoke hits the trunnion. However, the life of a standard U joint is considerably less at more severe angles of deflection whereas a CV joint or Double Cardan joint can withstand severe angles of deflection with little reduction in operating life. For high horsepower and high rpm applications a Double Cardan joint is the way to go. For lower horsepower applications but applications of high shock load, the CV joint is superior.
 
   / 3pt snowblower coversion to bucket attach w/frPTO #20  
Re: limiting FEL MOVEMENT

Daryl,

I agree completely. The CV joints can be expensive, at least they are on my car. I had forgotten about the Dbl. Carden joints.

I think the limiting factor now would be the location of the front support. But I expecet the front area of the tractor should be open enough to locate things easily. Then, going with the Dbl Carden joint, he'd be all set.

Sure hope we get to see some photos of this as it gets put together and while clearing snow. This baby is going to be sweet! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

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