Z-Michigan
Veteran Member
Hello. I'm comparing utility and larger compact tractors to purchase, planning to buy new from one of the major brands. The tractor will be used on a 20 acre horse farm in lower Michigan. We have 2 horses right now, and don't expect more than 4 at most. We currently have 2 acres in pasture and 4 in hay, but we are planning to improve that to 4+ acres in pasture and 7+ in hay during the next year. Our land has about 2.5 acres in woods and the balance is used for various other things (house, horse barn, future pole barn for equipment, 1500' driveway, wasted land due to prior owners having too much love for lawns). The land is gently sloping; there are no steep slopes that we would attempt to drive on. The land is generally well drained and not muddy, although not right now with our mild and wet winter so far.
I have limited tractor experience but am familiar with operating many other kinds of machinery (cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes). My wife has worked on several dairy farms and is used to driving LARGE farm tractors (200+ hp) and skid loaders. Both of us strongly prefer a manual shift, not a hydostatic.
Let me start by outling what I intend to do, in rough order of frequency:
Brush hogging: mowing grass every 4-6 weeks during spring/summer/early fall, mowing pastures as needed. Grass will range from 8" to maybe 3 feet at mowing. There should be few if any saplings and definitely no trees over 1" diameter. I think this is very light duty brush hogging. We would like to get a 6' brush hog (a 7' would be tight in some areas, and anything less than 6' seems like a slow way to mow).
Dragging pastures: dragging all our pastures with a chain link harrow fairly frequently, maybe once a month. We'll probably be getting an 8' wide drag, hopefully a 3PH version.
Box blade: using a box blade to maintain our 1500' gravel driveway, spread new gravel, and do some regrading around the barn. It may also get used for clearing and leveling the site for our new pole barn. There are many places where regrading would be a good idea, and I suspect the box blade will get a lot of use. Looking at a 6' box blade, and probably a medium duty version with swinging rear edge.
FEL: we will probably want to use a FEL to do some digging and a lot of moving material of various weights. In particular we have a number of large rock piles (one is roughly 40 feet across and 8-9 feet high, which I'm estimating as over 50 tons of rock) that we would like to move, possibly on the property or possibly into trucks to sell them. Our FEL work will probably not be as repetitive as what many do with an FEL, and everything we're looking at has shuttle shift.
Straight rear blade: I would probably occasionally use a straight 6' or 7' rear blade for regrading that can't be done well with the box blade. I expect this will be only 1-3 times a year, though I may be off.
Round bales: we want the ability to use round bales, although we aren't currently using them (we are using square bales). We would prefer to have FEL capacity to move round bales and that is one of the biggest things pushing me toward a utility tractor vs. a large compact. However, I would consider moving them with a spear on the 3PH, depending on comments I get here. I do not know the size or weight of round bales that we would use, so I am assuming bales up to 1200 lbs, plus a safety factor for wet bales.
Post hole digger: we may want to drill post holes. A relative has a post hole digger for his JD 4310 that we are able to borrow.
Manure handling: we are hoping that dragging the pastures will be sufficient to disperse manure from 2 horses, but if not we will pick up manure (likely using FEL) either to compost it or spread with a small manure spreader. We are not planning to get a manure spreader if we don't need to; however, if we do need one, we would prefer a PTO powered spreader because relatives have told us that ground-drive spreaders don't work well, especially on wet grass and mud in spring.
We are NOT currently planning:
A backhoe. While I'd love to have one, I don't see that I'll need one for anything.
Hay tools. We would love to do our own hay, but the cost of good hay equipment seems to be far too high to justify buying it for 7 acres of hay. We are planning to get a local farmer to cut and bale our hay, as the prior owners did.
So, with those uses in mind I see two things: many of these tasks could be done reasonably with a compact tractor. However, the FEL work - both moving round bales and moving rocks and soil - is driving me towards something with upwards of 1800lbs of FEL lift. Also, some threads here have suggested that 40 PTO hp is needed to run a 6' brush hog at a reasonable speed, so that is also a consideration. My wife and I both work full time and tractor chores use up weekend time and compete with other fun stuff, so we don't want something small that will make things go slow. At the same time, we don't want some monster tractor that is far too big and costs far too much.
The tractors I'm currently looking at (all in FWD version) are:
Kubota MX5000DT (FWD): this seems to be about the right size, with plenty of hp and adequate FEL strength (LA852) for our purposes. I've driven the 2wd version and thought it was ok, but pretty basic. I have a quote of $23,300 with FEL and quick-attach from the local dealer.
Kubota M5040: this is probably a bit bigger than we need, but doesn't cost much more than the MX5000 (quote of $25,728 with FEL) and seems to be considerably fancier in good ways. I'm particularly noting that the base price includes a skid-steer type quick-attach on the loader and one rear remote valve, along with some built in features in the hitch and drivetrain systems. This would be my preference, but the price difference would pay for two implements for the MX5000.
John Deere 4120/4320/4520: these seem to have the power and FEL capacity but are priced a bit higher (quote of $25,000 for the 4120, which I'm not sure has enough hp; seems to jump about $1800 for each hp increment) and I'm put off by their rather short wheelbase (71.5") when compared to their weight and hp. I am leaning against a JD based on price and short wheelbase, but I haven't ruled it out. (I think the JD 5105 is too big and too pricey for my needs.)
New Holland TC48 and TC55, or International DX48/DX55: I haven't seen these in person, but they look good from brochures and are about the right size, I think. I have a quote of $26,350 on a TC55 with FEL. At that price I would take the Kubota M5040. However, I don't have a quote on the TC48 and if it's less by at least $1500, I would consider it.
International JX55: This was suggested by the International dealer instead of the DX48 or DX55, which he thought were too small for handling bales. I like the looks of the JX55 but I think it's physically too big (length, wheelbase, weight), and I don't have a price on one.
Kubota L4400: this seems like it would be adequate for everything but the FEL work, and seems not to have the lift we want/need for that. I have an estimate of $20,400 for an L4400 with FEL.
I've looked at and driven the Kubota L5030 but do not like the HST. Local Kubota dealer doesn't have it with GST and says everyone buys them with HST. I would consider an L30 or L40 series if I could get one with FST. I have looked at the New Holland TC40/TC45 tractors but have some reservations about the amount of plastic and the tall height/short wheelbase design.
Since someone will ask, I've measured our barn doors and pasture gates and all of the above tractors will fit anywhere (even with ROPS up in the barn) except our hay storage lean-to, and its doors are too narrow for any of these.
I am planning on R4 tires with any of these and am still debating getting them filled. I would prefer not to fill them, to minimize lawn damage when mowing or doing miscellaneous FEL chores. When doing heavy FEL work (rocks or bales) I would plan to use a heavy weight on 3PH (either the box blade or possibly a ballast box loaded to 1000lbs).
The quality of the dealer is important. I have had good shopping experiences at the local JD and Kubota/New Holland (same place) dealers. I had a neutral experience at the International dealer. All are about the same distance from me, only 10 miles or so. I do not have nearby dealers for Massey-Ferguson, Mahindra, Kioti, or almost any other brand, so I'm inclined to stick with one of the first four brands I named. As far as I can tell the prices I've been quoted on JD, Kubota and New Holland are all fairly reasonable but not super cheap.
I'm asking for all range of comments, but would also like specific comments on the following:
1) Kubota uses steel fenders while JD and New Holland use plastic. I was initially inclined to prefer steel until I was reminded that they rust. Can anyone comment on how rust-prone Kubotas are and how durable the plastic fenders are? I noted that the JD plastic fenders on the 4120 look much stronger than the TC45 plastic fenders (again, I haven't seen the TC48/55 in person).
2) Am I accurate in my thoughts on handling round bales? If anyone has experience with moving round bales on a 3 PH bale spear with a smaller tractor, could they comment on how easy/difficult it is?
3) The Kubota MX5000 and L4400 have painted decks without rubber mats, while all others have rubber mats. Is this a big difference? Does the paint wear through and lead to rusting of the deck, or is the paint really tough?
4) The JD dealer, although generally very pleasant, made some wild claims about JD tractors putting out 10-15 more hp than their ratings and at the same time claiming Kubotas came in below their ratings when dyno'd. Without starting a green/orange battle, does anyone think there is any truth to this? I'm inclined to think it's just sales puffery.
5) With the typical low, front exhausts on CUTs, how much of the diesel fumes do you breathe? I have asthma and want to minimize my exposure to the exhaust. The M5040 and JX55 have vertical exhaust stacks that I assume get the fumes totally out of the way.
6) At what power/size level will I start breaking implements designed for a Class I hitch? I would prefer not to cross that line, and I wonder if the M5040, JX55 and TC55 may be on the edge of requiring Class II type implements. (I believe all of these have hitches that can accomodate both classes.)
7) How much PTO hp do I really need for the brush hogging I describe?
Thanks in advance!
I have limited tractor experience but am familiar with operating many other kinds of machinery (cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes). My wife has worked on several dairy farms and is used to driving LARGE farm tractors (200+ hp) and skid loaders. Both of us strongly prefer a manual shift, not a hydostatic.
Let me start by outling what I intend to do, in rough order of frequency:
Brush hogging: mowing grass every 4-6 weeks during spring/summer/early fall, mowing pastures as needed. Grass will range from 8" to maybe 3 feet at mowing. There should be few if any saplings and definitely no trees over 1" diameter. I think this is very light duty brush hogging. We would like to get a 6' brush hog (a 7' would be tight in some areas, and anything less than 6' seems like a slow way to mow).
Dragging pastures: dragging all our pastures with a chain link harrow fairly frequently, maybe once a month. We'll probably be getting an 8' wide drag, hopefully a 3PH version.
Box blade: using a box blade to maintain our 1500' gravel driveway, spread new gravel, and do some regrading around the barn. It may also get used for clearing and leveling the site for our new pole barn. There are many places where regrading would be a good idea, and I suspect the box blade will get a lot of use. Looking at a 6' box blade, and probably a medium duty version with swinging rear edge.
FEL: we will probably want to use a FEL to do some digging and a lot of moving material of various weights. In particular we have a number of large rock piles (one is roughly 40 feet across and 8-9 feet high, which I'm estimating as over 50 tons of rock) that we would like to move, possibly on the property or possibly into trucks to sell them. Our FEL work will probably not be as repetitive as what many do with an FEL, and everything we're looking at has shuttle shift.
Straight rear blade: I would probably occasionally use a straight 6' or 7' rear blade for regrading that can't be done well with the box blade. I expect this will be only 1-3 times a year, though I may be off.
Round bales: we want the ability to use round bales, although we aren't currently using them (we are using square bales). We would prefer to have FEL capacity to move round bales and that is one of the biggest things pushing me toward a utility tractor vs. a large compact. However, I would consider moving them with a spear on the 3PH, depending on comments I get here. I do not know the size or weight of round bales that we would use, so I am assuming bales up to 1200 lbs, plus a safety factor for wet bales.
Post hole digger: we may want to drill post holes. A relative has a post hole digger for his JD 4310 that we are able to borrow.
Manure handling: we are hoping that dragging the pastures will be sufficient to disperse manure from 2 horses, but if not we will pick up manure (likely using FEL) either to compost it or spread with a small manure spreader. We are not planning to get a manure spreader if we don't need to; however, if we do need one, we would prefer a PTO powered spreader because relatives have told us that ground-drive spreaders don't work well, especially on wet grass and mud in spring.
We are NOT currently planning:
A backhoe. While I'd love to have one, I don't see that I'll need one for anything.
Hay tools. We would love to do our own hay, but the cost of good hay equipment seems to be far too high to justify buying it for 7 acres of hay. We are planning to get a local farmer to cut and bale our hay, as the prior owners did.
So, with those uses in mind I see two things: many of these tasks could be done reasonably with a compact tractor. However, the FEL work - both moving round bales and moving rocks and soil - is driving me towards something with upwards of 1800lbs of FEL lift. Also, some threads here have suggested that 40 PTO hp is needed to run a 6' brush hog at a reasonable speed, so that is also a consideration. My wife and I both work full time and tractor chores use up weekend time and compete with other fun stuff, so we don't want something small that will make things go slow. At the same time, we don't want some monster tractor that is far too big and costs far too much.
The tractors I'm currently looking at (all in FWD version) are:
Kubota MX5000DT (FWD): this seems to be about the right size, with plenty of hp and adequate FEL strength (LA852) for our purposes. I've driven the 2wd version and thought it was ok, but pretty basic. I have a quote of $23,300 with FEL and quick-attach from the local dealer.
Kubota M5040: this is probably a bit bigger than we need, but doesn't cost much more than the MX5000 (quote of $25,728 with FEL) and seems to be considerably fancier in good ways. I'm particularly noting that the base price includes a skid-steer type quick-attach on the loader and one rear remote valve, along with some built in features in the hitch and drivetrain systems. This would be my preference, but the price difference would pay for two implements for the MX5000.
John Deere 4120/4320/4520: these seem to have the power and FEL capacity but are priced a bit higher (quote of $25,000 for the 4120, which I'm not sure has enough hp; seems to jump about $1800 for each hp increment) and I'm put off by their rather short wheelbase (71.5") when compared to their weight and hp. I am leaning against a JD based on price and short wheelbase, but I haven't ruled it out. (I think the JD 5105 is too big and too pricey for my needs.)
New Holland TC48 and TC55, or International DX48/DX55: I haven't seen these in person, but they look good from brochures and are about the right size, I think. I have a quote of $26,350 on a TC55 with FEL. At that price I would take the Kubota M5040. However, I don't have a quote on the TC48 and if it's less by at least $1500, I would consider it.
International JX55: This was suggested by the International dealer instead of the DX48 or DX55, which he thought were too small for handling bales. I like the looks of the JX55 but I think it's physically too big (length, wheelbase, weight), and I don't have a price on one.
Kubota L4400: this seems like it would be adequate for everything but the FEL work, and seems not to have the lift we want/need for that. I have an estimate of $20,400 for an L4400 with FEL.
I've looked at and driven the Kubota L5030 but do not like the HST. Local Kubota dealer doesn't have it with GST and says everyone buys them with HST. I would consider an L30 or L40 series if I could get one with FST. I have looked at the New Holland TC40/TC45 tractors but have some reservations about the amount of plastic and the tall height/short wheelbase design.
Since someone will ask, I've measured our barn doors and pasture gates and all of the above tractors will fit anywhere (even with ROPS up in the barn) except our hay storage lean-to, and its doors are too narrow for any of these.
I am planning on R4 tires with any of these and am still debating getting them filled. I would prefer not to fill them, to minimize lawn damage when mowing or doing miscellaneous FEL chores. When doing heavy FEL work (rocks or bales) I would plan to use a heavy weight on 3PH (either the box blade or possibly a ballast box loaded to 1000lbs).
The quality of the dealer is important. I have had good shopping experiences at the local JD and Kubota/New Holland (same place) dealers. I had a neutral experience at the International dealer. All are about the same distance from me, only 10 miles or so. I do not have nearby dealers for Massey-Ferguson, Mahindra, Kioti, or almost any other brand, so I'm inclined to stick with one of the first four brands I named. As far as I can tell the prices I've been quoted on JD, Kubota and New Holland are all fairly reasonable but not super cheap.
I'm asking for all range of comments, but would also like specific comments on the following:
1) Kubota uses steel fenders while JD and New Holland use plastic. I was initially inclined to prefer steel until I was reminded that they rust. Can anyone comment on how rust-prone Kubotas are and how durable the plastic fenders are? I noted that the JD plastic fenders on the 4120 look much stronger than the TC45 plastic fenders (again, I haven't seen the TC48/55 in person).
2) Am I accurate in my thoughts on handling round bales? If anyone has experience with moving round bales on a 3 PH bale spear with a smaller tractor, could they comment on how easy/difficult it is?
3) The Kubota MX5000 and L4400 have painted decks without rubber mats, while all others have rubber mats. Is this a big difference? Does the paint wear through and lead to rusting of the deck, or is the paint really tough?
4) The JD dealer, although generally very pleasant, made some wild claims about JD tractors putting out 10-15 more hp than their ratings and at the same time claiming Kubotas came in below their ratings when dyno'd. Without starting a green/orange battle, does anyone think there is any truth to this? I'm inclined to think it's just sales puffery.
5) With the typical low, front exhausts on CUTs, how much of the diesel fumes do you breathe? I have asthma and want to minimize my exposure to the exhaust. The M5040 and JX55 have vertical exhaust stacks that I assume get the fumes totally out of the way.
6) At what power/size level will I start breaking implements designed for a Class I hitch? I would prefer not to cross that line, and I wonder if the M5040, JX55 and TC55 may be on the edge of requiring Class II type implements. (I believe all of these have hitches that can accomodate both classes.)
7) How much PTO hp do I really need for the brush hogging I describe?
Thanks in advance!