40gpm log s[litter valve

[muddstopper]

I have been looking for a valve with a return detent to use on my wood processor I am building. Plans are 2 cylinders and 40gpm flow. I found this valve, 3WAY DETENT, 4 WAY 4WAY (403D44PB) | Welcome to Buyers Products Company and am wondering if it will work like the smaller 25gpm prince valve you find on smaller wood splitters. Need advice before plunking down big dollars.

 

[J_J]

A three way detent means just that. The spool will detent in all three positions.

That means that if you put the valve in detent to split a log, it will split and keep providing pressure until detent is released.

If you pull it back to neutral, it will stay in neutral.

If you pull the lever to retract, the spool will stay in detent until you pull it back to neutral.

A regular log splitter valve has a push lever to split, and when you release the handle, the lever returns to neutral.

If you pull the lever to retract, the cyl retracts and when the rod is fully retracted, pressure, build up will cause the lever to shift back to neutral.

How do you want the valve to work?

Do you actually have a 40 GPM pump?

What size engine do you have to power that 40 GPM flow.

40 GPM at 2500 psi, will require about 68 HP

The valve you posted will not auto return..

 

[muddstopper]

JJ, I am still gathering parts. I want a valve capable of handling 40gpm that works like a normal log splitting valve. Push and hold lever to split and pull lever and release but auto retract and shift to neutral as pressure builds up. . Not having much luck in finding such a valve. I might have to resort to using a spring centered valve

I will have 100hp available to run a 40gpm and a 30gpm pump, but both pumps wont be making high pressure at the same time. Still looking for engine and still looking for pumps. Found a 471 detroit, but dont want to listen to the racket those engines make, but the price is right. Engine aint going anywhere so I hope to run across a b4 cummings to do the build.

 

[J_J]

I don't believe anyone makes a 40 GPM log splitter valve.

If you can't find a lever valve would you be interested in solenoid valves and relays to shift the cyl extend and retract?

You can find large 12v solenoid valves.

You will probably will have other hyd functions, such as log loading, pushing log into cut position, hyd chain saw, splitting, conveyer, etc.

You can also find multiple pumps similar to this.

Supplier of Hydraulic pumps and hydraulic hoses, and other hydraulic parts.

 

[muddstopper]

I have considered solenoid valves and using relays and limit switches. In fact,I have a rexroth solenoid valve I intend to run the saw with. Rated at 30gpm and has built in relief. I have dealt with a lot of electric valves on equipment at work. I just dont like the ideal of hitting a button and everything being automatic when it comes to the splitter. Manual valves can screw up too, but not as common as electrical shorts.

Finding new pumps aint the problem, finding used pumps I can afford and will do what I need is. Right now I am looking at new 5 cuin pumps, surplus center has a few I can make work at reasonable prices. I dont think they have a stackable 30/40gpm pump tho. Need to go check that out now while its fresh on my mind. I'll also check out the link you provided and give them a call.

 

[glastron23]

Muddstopper.. just how BIG of a splitter are you planing??? 40 gpm AND 30 gpm????

 

[muddstopper]

I am building a firewood processor. 60ton, twin 5in cylinders, multisplit wedges, capable of 27in dia splits. Saw is 1.3cuin procline gear motor at 25gpm, coupled to a 27in bar, .404 chain, 13tooth sprocket. Should yield 29hp and match the ftpm of a 3120, husquvarna, (less about 100ftpm), gas powered chainsaw. Cycle time for 24in stroke will be around 6sec. Plans also include a small knuckle boom with grapple mounted on processor for self loading of logs. Been planning and gathering parts for a few years know, just about ready to start the build. As always, money is whats slowing everything down.

 

[CJONE]

do yourself a favor and use a multi sectional pump like JJ is suggesting. And remember the splitter only has to work as fast as you can feed it. Prince makes a processor valve that is rated to 30 or 35gpm. I know it will flow more so you may have to size your pump to the valve and cheat it a little. Who makes Procline? Do you have a Poclain piston motor by chance? If so they make HP by pressure and most of the processors I have supplied pumps to use 3000-3500psi bushing pumps. So consider that on sizing your pump. Also be aware of the RPM's of your prime mover, some of the smaller diesels turn 2800-3600RPM and that changes your GPM per RPM. I fixed a power unit because of the pump being sized at 2100 when the little turbocharged 125hp cummins was turning at 3200+. CJ

 

[muddstopper]

I'll have to check the spelling on the hydraulic motor. I intend to test the saw out before doing the rest of the build, I have already built the saw, just havent gotten around to mounting it on some sort of frame to do any testing.

I know what you mean about sizing the engine speed to the pump. One reason I am hesitant about going with the 471 detroit engine. It makes its hp at around 1800rpms, seems most of the pumps I am finding want to be spun faster.

Buying a new multi sectional pump is sort of out of the question right now, with that in mind, I am looking for used. Problem with looking for used is anything that has a sectional pump capable of pumping 30/40gpm is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Scrap yards around here have scraped out. If you do find any thing you can rob a sectional pump off of, you have to crawl in it, scrape off the grease, read the tag, and then research the numbers to see what size the pump actually is. Been there, done that, and am getting fustrated.

 

[CJONE]

I'll have to check the spelling on the hydraulic motor. I intend to test the saw out before doing the rest of the build, I have already built the saw, just havent gotten around to mounting it on some sort of frame to do any testing.

I know what you mean about sizing the engine speed to the pump. One reason I am hesitant about going with the 471 detroit engine. It makes its hp at around 1800rpms, seems most of the pumps I am finding want to be spun faster.

Buying a new multi sectional pump is sort of out of the question right now, with that in mind, I am looking for used. Problem with looking for used is anything that has a sectional pump capable of pumping 30/40gpm is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Scrap yards around here have scraped out. If you do find any thing you can rob a sectional pump off of, you have to crawl in it, scrape off the grease, read the tag, and then research the numbers to see what size the pump actually is. Been there, done that, and am getting fustrated.

Actually no, most gear pumps have a minimum of around 400-500rpm to work efficiently. Most gear pumps of any size are 2400rpm max, you can cheat them to 3000rpm but each application is different. As far as your Detroit it is actually a good engine to drive hydraulics with. Either idle or wide open. Lately I have been switching out detroits for either cummins or older cats. Anyway once you get your requirements we can go from there. CJ

 

[mikehaugen]

I agree that a variable displacement pump would be worth trying to find. I think it would save you a ton of fuel.

 

[CJONE]

I agree that a variable displacement pump would be worth trying to find. I think it would save you a ton of fuel.

?? With multiple circuits working at the same time at different pressures/flows it is extremely hard if not impossible to keep everything correct with a 1 circuit v/d pump. Remember when you are not using a function with open circuit hydraulics it is just flow returning back to tank, very little fuel use or load. CJ

 

[mikehaugen]

If you are talking open center then I agree about the fuel usage, but it would be more difficult to keep everything right with oc, unless everything comes out of a single valve bank. A vd pump would be easy, it will displace as much as it needs to in order to maintain a preset pressure. Just about every power unit at my work uses a vd pump with as many as 20 (maybe more) circuits coming off of it.

 

[mikehaugen]

If a certain circuit needs less pressure than that preset you can put a regulator in that circuit.

 

[mikehaugen]

Most gear pumps that I see are cc, with one relief valve to regulate pressure, so the pump is constantly running full displacement and pressure... very inefficient.

 

[mikehaugen]

Btw, I am referring to axial piston pumps... not too familiar with other types of vd pumps.

 

[CJONE]

Gear pumps are used in o/c systems, very rarely are they used with cc systems and when they are they include a dump valve to unload a checked circuit like a accumulator. Gear pumps do not dump over a pressure control, if they did they will quickly overheat a system.[I deal with this mistake ALOT] A gear pump gives you the pressure to do the job, no more until it hits the relief. 1 large VD pressure comp pump would need pressure compensating flow controls in each circuit to keep rpm and speed in control, a simple flow control would not do be cause of load variations and temp. The cost of this is very prohibitive verses a multi circuit gear pump that will always give you the same flow per circuit no matter the pressure differences. You must work in a factory or industrial setting. I could put 100 valves into a closed center system but if 1 valve required the full flow of the pump at a lower pressure than any of the other valves that is working, only that circuit will function. I do this every day. Yesterday was fixing a press that a customer spent thousands on throwing parts at it for a year and it was fixed in 20 minutes with a simple flow control. Anyway fun fun. CJ

 

[mikehaugen]

1 large VD pressure comp pump would need pressure compensating flow controls in each circuit to keep rpm and speed in control, a simple flow control would not do be cause of load variations and temp.

I don't understand this part of your response. I do work in a factory, and am used to electric motors powering hydraulic pumps... they don't change speed, maybe that's the difference?

90% of the pumps we have are axial piston vd pc pumps. They have a swash plate the will change angle so when there is no demand and it reaches some predetermined pressure (set on pump) the displacement drops to near zero. As soon as there is flow (demand) the swash plate angles and allows the pistons to displace fluid to keep the pressure steady, regardless of flow. It doesn't matter if there is one valve open or 20, as long as the the demand does not exceed the maximum displacement of the pump.... the pressure does not change.

I think you probably know this, but just pointed it out so you know my thinking. Maybe there is a difference between the industrial applications that I am used to and whatever you are used to. Not trying to argue, maybe there is an opportunity for me to learn something too. I don't know how one of these pumps would behave behind an engine that is probably not tightly governed, as I said an electric motor is more or less constant.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread, the op was asking about valves. You can pm me to discuss this more if you like, I am always up for constructive discussion and/or learning.

 

[CJONE]

I don't understand this part of your response. I do work in a factory, and am used to electric motors powering hydraulic pumps... they don't change speed, maybe that's the difference?

90% of the pumps we have are axial piston vd pc pumps. They have a swash plate the will change angle so when there is no demand and it reaches some predetermined pressure (set on pump) the displacement drops to near zero. As soon as there is flow (demand) the swash plate angles and allows the pistons to displace fluid to keep the pressure steady, regardless of flow. It doesn't matter if there is one valve open or 20, as long as the the demand does not exceed the maximum displacement of the pump.... the pressure does not change.

I think you probably know this, but just pointed it out so you know my thinking. Maybe there is a difference between the industrial applications that I am used to and whatever you are used to. Not trying to argue, maybe there is an opportunity for me to learn something too. I don't know how one of these pumps would behave behind an engine that is probably not tightly governed, as I said an electric motor is more or less constant.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread, the op was asking about valves. You can pm me to discuss this more if you like, I am always up for constructive discussion and/or learning.

Real simple. If you have 6 valves and actuate all 6 to run 6 different things and you have 20gpm pump and 1 circuit takes 15gpm at 1000psi and the others take 1 GPM at 2000psi. The circuit that requires 15gpm will now see all the oil 20GPM] overspeeding whatever you are running and the ones that need 2000psi to run will see nothing. The pressure comp pump just provides oil to a pressure setting and the valves just open or close. Flow controls cannot control different flows AND pressure unless they are pressure compensating, $$$$. + you have the added bonus of constantly messing with them. Been there, just not worth it IMHO. CJ
Forgot to add, the prime mover RPM only effects GPM not the distribution of oil.

 

[muddstopper]

I think for my application a stacked pump or a pair of pumps is the best answer. A stacked pump would mean only one mount and be a lot easier to connect to a engine. With a processor, you arent really taking full hp when operating. The saw takes full power when sawing, but you most likely will be advancing the log for another cut while the splitter is cycling. The splitter takes full power to split, but on retract, power requirement is minimal. Even while splitting, the saw probably wont be running before the splitter starts it return stroke. Ideally, the splitter would just be starting its retract about the time the saw starts cutting the round and the saw should drop the cut just as the splitter is fully retracted. Everything would have to be perfect and uniform to make that happen. I have timed large saws in large rounds and 12sec cuts are not unusual, but in small rounds the cut might just take 5 sec. It would be extremely hard to work fast enough that every function of a processor would need to operate at the same time. I am just hoping that I can cut and split a round every 12-15sec and with a hydraulic chainsaw, that might be asking to much. It easy to get 12 sec cycle times with a splitter, but every log aint the same when it comes to sawing into blocks.