4115 - dead as Elvis

[McZook]

Hello TBN saviours.

I have a 4115, less than 300 hours.

I was back blade plowing for about 35 minutes the other night and she quit on me in the middle of the road. luckily, the first motorist by was able to help me push it back into the driveway. I have been unable to tow it up my considerably hilled drive to get it back into a heated area.

Symptoms:

- turn the key, one small click, then nothing. it does not try to do more.

Things I have tried/checked:

- fuses look ok
- added ISO to fuel.
- The diesel in it was fresh, but untreated for winter. The temps here have been in the 20s - not cold by our standards.
- I added a small amount of newly treated fuel.
- jumping makes no difference. it does seem to draw some from the 4x4 I was jumping it with though.
- the battery is about 2 months old. However, corrosion killed the battery. The clamp was corroded too and has not yet been replaced. it is on pretty sturdy as is, but could be better.

Anything else I am overlooking? I am a total newbie to this stuff...

Thanks in advance...

 

[sandman2234]

The click could mean low battery, but it dieing in the middle of the road doesn't follow that route. Most diesels will continue to run, even with dead batteries. A diesel takes a lot of juice to start, and is hard on batteries, so they require really good batteries. My JD has weak batteries, and if I use cheap jumper cables, it makes almost no difference at all. I have to have a good battery behind a good set of jumper cables.
The starting problem may be tied to the dieing problem, but I would look into why it died first, before trying to start it.
Due to the age of the tractor (2002 or so??) could it still have an original battery in it, alternator died, and the computer didn't like it? All guess work on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.
David from jax

 

[ToadHill]

Charge or replace the battery, If jumping won't work, you could have a short in the battery itself. If battery has a short it won't take a charge.

 

[McZook]

I left out a piece... the battery is about 2 months old. However, the clamp was corroded and has not yet been replaced. it is on pretty sturdy as is, but could be better.

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

[SFish]

Hi McZook:

The click and nothing usually suggests a bad starter solenoid, but the fact that it died when running suggests a loose connection. If the bad connection carries just a little current it can click the solenoid, but not pass enough amperage to turn over the motor. Presumably you have jumped to the cable clamps on the battery, which eliminates the battery connections as a problem. As a first shot, check both the ground and hotside battery cables where they connect to the tractor.

My best guess, Steve

 

[Mike058]

If the battery cable clamp is corroded, I'd bet any, if not all, ground cable connections are in pretty rough shape too. I'd start by removing all the ground connections, cleaning them, putting some dielectric grease on them and reattach them. If the cables look corroded, replace them. The connections on the battery need to be corrosion free too. I don't think corroded cables or connections caused the tractor to stop after it was running, but you have to start somewhere and getting power to the starter is the first step. Actually, getting the battery load tested at a battery shop would be the real first step. Even new batteries can be defective. It's rare but it'll drive you nuts if that's what the issue is. Once you have a known good battery hooked up with clean connections and good cables, you can start to check out things like starter solenoids and starters themselves. After the starter's cranking really well, you can move on to fuel delivery problems. I'll bet at that point you'll see what caused the tractor to quit in the first place. I hope you'll keep us informed about your progress. That's how we learn around here.

 

[McZook]

ok, my head is spinning... I am a total newbie in all things mechanical and partiulcarly tractors. I bought this tractor with the house and learning as I go.

I am going to try a few of these. I will let you know.

 

[dbdartman]

Replace the battery cables. If it's as corroded as you say it was, it won't take a jump, & it WILL make the engine "just quit" because the fuel shut-off is electric. Remove the battery & see if it'll take a charge, or have it charged & load-tested. Remove the alternator & regulator (if it's externally regulated) & have both tested. Failure to do all this may cause one of the untested/replaced components to fail, injuring other of the mentioned components.

 

[JoeDirt2008]

- The diesel in it was fresh, but untreated for winter. The temps here have been in the 20s - not cold by our standards.
- I added a small amount of newly treated fuel.

Still cold enough to turn it into pudding, without the proper and enough treatment. Battery being the other issue

 

[B8FISH]

Agree with most of the above regarding the battery etc. Yes, 20 is not cold by our standards but all of the fuel should be treated. I would add enough treatment to do the entire tank after you get it to start turning over.

 

[deere755]

If you have Bio diesel you could have problems at 20 degrees. We had 2 trucks that did not start the other morning at 26 degrees until we changed filters and treated the fuel. I hate bio in the winter but I am not the boss.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Ever since I took an uncle up on a dare to hit that wire while I was urinating as a child, I have been not too competent around electricty... I did have a garden tractor that died like that once though, and it turned out to be one of the safety interlock switches........ just food for thought from a guy with good aim.

 

[sandman2234]

Are there any mechanically inclined members, or relatives/friends that might help you diagonose it? Nothing more frustrating then tearing something apart just to find it wasn't bad, and now it won't go back together....
David from jax

 

[bx24]

Couple of things, first off - Elvis is not dead, he just rides a Kubota

As for the clicking noise, try turning on your headlights on the tractor and then crank it over. If the lights start out dim or go dim when you try to crank it, the battery or the corroded cables would immediately be suspect. If nothing happens with the lights, I would start looking at the starter solenoid.

As for it quiting when you were in the middle of using it, to me that sounds like one of the safety kill switches engaged (apparently by mistake). Somebody help me here with Green machines, does this model have a seat kill switch? If yes, I would try shorting out the leads on the seat switch to see if that might be it.

If you have a volt meter and you put it on the starter or battery and they read OK and don't drop at all when you try to crank it, I would be willing to bet that it is a kill switch issue. There are machines with the same type of device on things like the PTO engagement handle where they will not start or turn over if the machine thinks it is has the PTO engaged when you try to start it.

 

[SFish]

I am not sure about this, but I don't think the solenoid or another component would click when trying to start if one of the safety interlocks was faulty or activated.

Steve

 

[bx24]

Sfish- I agree with your concept ... It seems we need more info from McZook because something is not adding up here.

 

[McZook]

Thanks for all of the suggestions, TBN members.

I have replaced the battery terminal connector and made sure the battery was charged up. The battery was ok to start with.

Everyone I talk to locally seems to point towards and electrical problem as well.

It does not try to turn over, ruling out fuel jelly.
the lights all come on, and do not seem to dim when I turn the key trying to start it.

One odd thing, none of the guages light up or move at all when I turn the key to on, or try to start...

I do not know where the solenoid is, what it looks like or how to check it.

I have tried to ensure that all of the most basic things are covered. The tractor is not in gear. The PTO is not engaged, and I plunk my 220 lbs right in the seat when trying to start it.

Any other suggestions?

 

[gordon21]

No dash lights sounds like a fuse or multiple fuse problems. Check all fuses. They may not all be in one place. If you find one bad one, still keep looking for others.

 

[McZook]

I checked the 4 blade fuses - 2 & 10, 1 & 15, 1 & 20. All looked ok.

I replaced the 10s and the 20 anyway. nothing.

 

[Greenster]

I would bet based on what I've read that your battery may have 'opened' and failed. This type of failure would show some indications of voltage (clicking solenoid, dim lights on dashboard) but very little current will pass through the battery. If you put your battery charger on it, it will show near 0 amps (or what looks like a fully charged battery). I have seen this before.

If you want to test the fuel solenoid, it should be by the injector pump and has 2 wires coming out of it. Disconnect from the harness and put an digital ohm meter on the the wires connected to the solenoid. You should see a reading of between 20 and 50 ohms (a bit of a guess here). If you see 10 or less it's probably shorted and if it's really high you have a opened circuit.

I put my bets on the battery.