430 Broken Front Wheel Spindle

[Squidbait]

Greetings gentleman,

I had a couple of questions about the John Deere 430 Lawn Tractor I use to mow the yard for my church. The church bought the tractor new back in the late 1980's or early 1990's. I was mowing the church property the other day and plop! the right front wheel spindle broke into (basically the wheel came off). The spindle rod broke right where rod intersects the flat metal plate (that extends out to attach to the steering rod). The actual rod broke into. I hate to say this, but the left front spindle broke off last fall in the same spot on the spindle. Last fall we ordered a replacement spindle for our tractor - looking up the serial number on TractorData.com the tractor appears to be a 1992 model (the last year they where made). When our replacement spindle arrived it didn't fit - it was roughly 020 to .030 of an inch too large in diameter. Our John Deere dealer ordered another spindle for an earlier make of the 430 and that spindle fit perfectly. What I can't figure out is why the tractor I use (if it is a 1992 model) takes parts to fit an earlier version of the 430?

Here is the a picture of the actual serial number of the 430 I mow with.



Maybe some body can tell me if I am reading the serial number incorrectly or if the chart on TractorData.com is incorrect. We got the left front spindle replaced last year when it broke - the parts were available. We checked with our John Deere Dealer Tuesday and they told us that only one of the two makes of 430 front wheel spindle is now available. My concern is if the available spindle is the one that does not fit. What options would we have to replace or repair the broken spindle? I personally do not know any machinists or welders. If the part was welded my guess is that some of the existing material would have to be removed (machined off) to create a clean surface for welding. Plus, how does a person weld a part that is a 1 inch thick (diameter) solid steel? Maybe that is easy (I don't know. I'm not a welder.)

Any suggestions or information would be greatly appreciated.

Below are a couple of pictures that I took last year that may help you visualize the area(s) where both spindles broke.






One quick comment: in the picture above that shows the actual place where the spindle broke - in the light colored area on the left of the spindle you can actually see the grain structure of the metal. The darker colored on the right of the spindle is fairly smooth with slightly raised "ripples" - no metal grain structure is visible (a shearing of the metal?). Both broken wheel spindles appear this way which puzzles me. To me I would think the grain structure would be visible across the entire cross section of this broke metal part. Any idea why this appear the way it does?

 

[beenthere]

A puzzlement for sure. The s/n that I see is 111307

Is it possible to machine the large one to fit?

Hope you get better help from your dealer and don't run into a dead end.

 

[Squidbait]

Thanks for the reply "beenthere". Yes that is the correct serial number of the tractor.

An update: As I understand things John Deere does not manufacture or have any front wheel spindles in stock anymore. Our local dealer did by chance have a spindle in inventory that should fit the tractor I mow with (It was in a box full of mixed parts they got from another John Deere dealer). It is supposed to be the correct size spindle that will fit a 1992 model JD 430 Lawn and Garden tractor. Once again it is oversized and will not work as is. So now I will be starting to look for a machine shop that may be able to machine off about .015" to .018" (total) of metal stock off at both ends of the spindle to make it work.

I did talk briefly to a gentleman who used to work for the local John Deere Dealership (before they changed ownership and moved). He suggested machining the axel out instead of machining the wheel spindle. My only concern was that the wheel bearings would have to be machined out also or changed or adapted somehow to work with the oversized part.

Anybody out there have any other suggestions? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time gentleman.

Squidbait

 

[beenthere]

Have you thought about getting the right size bushing that will fit the id of the axle and the od of the spindle?
If by chance there is such a bushing, it solves both machining problems. Glad you found a spindle.. to work with.
Looks like you are getting close.. and hope you find the machinist that can solve the dilemma.

Or is it the diam of the part that goes through the wheel bearings that is oversize, not the part that goes up through the bushings in the axle?

 

[Richard001]

Or is it the diam of the part that goes through the wheel bearings that is oversize, not the part that goes up through the bushings in the axle?

Yeah, that's the question I was wanting to ask. If it's just the bushings in the axle support, then maybe easier to just buy a reamer or drill just the right size and enlarge the bushings in the axle support.

Richard

 

[Squidbait]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen,

Or is it the diam of the part that goes through the wheel bearings that is oversize, not the part that goes up through the bushings in the axle?

Maybe I made my description confusing. The spindle is oversized on both ends (The spindle OD is oversized): The end that would slide through the wheel bearings (ID) and the end that slides up into the front axel (ID). I may be wrong, but I don't thing that there are any bushings in the front axel where the spindles slide up into the axel. I think the axel is just a smooth machined cylindrical surface with grease as the lubricant.

 

[beenthere]

There are bushings up through the axle. See jdparts.com
And your dealer parts person should know just what is needed. Put some pressure on whoever is looking up parts for you. More info included in second attachment.. with reference to bushings and spindles.

 

[Richard001]

Also if the wheel bearings are too small for the new axle, it could be possible that the JD dealer has new bearings that would fit in your old wheel and also would accommodate the larger axle diameter.

As a last resort, you could just go to your local industrial supply house and see if they can fit a bearing for you.

Richard

 

[Squidbait]

Well I guess I was wrong. There are bushings in that there axel. Thanks for the info an suggestions gentlemen. This gives me a little more information to go on.

 

[Squidbait]

Also if the wheel bearings are too small for the new axle, it could be possible that the JD dealer has new bearings that would fit in your old wheel and also would accommodate the larger axle diameter.

I checked into this Richard001 - it was a No Go. The Deere Shop could not find wheel bearings that would work with the larger axel and still fit the wheel itself. I checked Fastenal's website today; they carry approximately 5,500 different bearings. They had one model of wheel bearing that met all of the dimensional requirements for my needs - except the wheel bearings need to have a flange around it to keep the bearing in place on the wheel. Fastenal's bearing did not have this very important flange.

So machining the spindle to fit seems to be the only option I have left. I called three different local machine shops, but only managed to get talk to someone at one shop. I set up an appointment (on Tuesday) to show him my old spindle, my new one (for machining), and the wheel itself to insure a proper fit. I left messages at two other shops and plan to go to one machine shop tomorrow morning to get their input on machining this part.

A service representative at my local JD dealer said the machinists at this particular shop (I plan to see tomorrow) have done some impressive work for them and helped them in fabricating parts for repairs on bigger machines. He said they fabricated an entire rear axel for a large farmer tractor in which the axel was not available. So we will see how things go. This is all new to me, so I am learning as I go. I do appreciate the input from and "beenthere".

 

[darrollr]

What was your final outcome? I am in a simular situation right now. I had my steering spindle break right at the same spot back in June. All I could find were used spindles on eBay. I bought a set and they lasted less than 10 hours of mowing. The same one broke again in the exact same spot. I do not understand why this is a weak point or what to do to make it stronger? I am a professional welder and could properly weld the spindle; however, I do not trust the structural integrity of the metal to keep from shearing again. Any ideas?

 

[Squidbait]

Hello darrollr,

I guess I forgot to post about my final outcome. Our local John Deere dealer happen to have a spindle in stock. It was in the back in a cardboard box full of various parts. The spindle was the wrong diameter by a total of about 0.015 of an inch. I took the spindle to a machine shop to see if the fellow thought he could take the extra stock off. He had the part for about five days before he figured out a way to mount the spindle on a lathe to get the extra stock off of the end (that the wheel attaches to). It worked and I installed the new spindle in the tractor, but I didn't replace any bearings or bushings. The spindle seems fine so far.

All I could find were used spindles on eBay. I bought a set and they lasted less than 10 hours of mowing.

Geez! Really? That stinks.

This is what I suggest you try darrollr if the cost is not too high - which only you can determine. If you can not find a John Deere dealer that (just) might have one of these in stock - have one made. I say this because after talking on the phone to people at three or four local machine shops one gentleman stated that he may be able to fabricate one. He said (and it makes sense) that it would be much easier to machine a straight piece of metal stock then heat it and bend it into shape - than try to lathe a piece of metal that is already bent into shape. Of course the shop has to have all of the equipment (or have access to all of the equipment) to be able to machine it, bend it, heat treat it quench it, or whatever else may be required. When talking to the head of the parts department at out local JD dealership (while looking for bearings to fit) he could bring up very detailed drawings of individual parts with all of the dimensions listed (basically like a blueprint). Maybe you could have someone look up a blueprint of that part and print it out for you. You could then give it to a machinist, so he would have all of the correct dimensions for grooves, angles, metal type, diameters, etc. to make a new part and give you a rough cost to make it.

The machine shop that I actually went to had changed hands (ownership), but the fellow working there (the current owner) had been working there for years. In the they past had built an axel from scratch for an older larger (for farm use?) model John Deere tractor that parts were no longer available for. A JD service guy told me they had used that particular shop quite a few times (in the past) to make parts that were no longer available for other machines. So you may want to check into having a machine shop make you a spindle from scratch as an option. It can't hurt to check it out at least. The cost to get a new part built may not be too terribly expensive. Give it a try.

I do not understand why this is a weak point or what to do to make it stronger?

I don't know either. Of course I know very little about welding.


Just curious darrollr - how many hours does your 430 have (I am assuming you have a 430 or 420 mower/tractor)? How well does it travel along the ground in forward and in reverse? Does it jerk any when switching between forward and reverse. Since this issue with the front spindle has been resolved another issue is getting way to hard to deal with on the church tractor. I don't know if the hydrostatic pump is wore out, or the transmission is wore out on the mower I use, but I get jerked around so badly when changing directions - I feel like I am riding a bucking, jumping horse. I have mowed in low range the past few times to reduce the effects, but it is still bad. I don't feel near as safe using it as I have in the past. Granted this has been going on for (I am sorry to say) three summers now, but it is getting to be about unbearable. We got the (throttle/direction) linkage adjusted three years ago, but it started showing signs of getting back out of alignment after about 10 to 12 hours of use. We had the hydrostatic dampener changed out also, but I still could not see much of a change in its behavior. I do not have any idea what to do with it. The John Deere place said they could rebuild the pump/transmission for about $2,000+ or something like that (assuming the parts are still available). They charge $95 per hour for labor. :shocked::thumbdown: I have seen a place online that can (or could) rebuild the particular hydrostatic pump/transmission on the 430 - a Sunstrand 90. I just don't really know much about the hydrostatic pump or transmission or what to do, or even what needs fixing exactly. Do you have any hints or suggestions? I would appreciate any advice or tips you could share with me. Having the John Deere dealer work on the tractor is a near last resort, and buying a new mower is almost beyond being a last resort. I don't know what to do. The tractor has been used by probably 6 to 8 people through its 24 years (and 1,300 hours) of use at the church. Me and my dad have used it the most of anyone - almost half of the life of the machine. It is a good machine when in good working order, but right now it is very hard to use when it jerks so badly. My stomach muscles get sore from being jerked around so much. Well anyway. Any input is appreciated.

 

[darrollr]

Thank you.

 

[darrollr]

I am going to try and weld this broken one to get me through the rest of this season. However, I found another forum thread that talks about building new spindles all together so I am planning on going that route.

 

[darrollr]

I will now put together a reply that may lead you in the right direction for your jerky problem.

 

[darrollr]

"Just curious darrollr - how many hours does your 430?"

Mine is a 1988 430 and it only has about 920 hours on it. I'm the second owner. I bought it from my wife's grandad who is well over 300lbs. However he was a slow cautious driver so it wasn't really abused as far as mechanicals go, the body was just wore down. All the fender deck bushings and even the deluxe seat suspension internal bushings were completely gone. I have completely rebuilt the seat suspension, replaced all the fender deck bushings, removed and repainted every part from the machine, etc. that list goes on and on so better stop there.


"How well does it travel along the ground in forward and in reverse Does it jerk any when switching between forward and reverse?"

It was very jerky moving between forward and reverse. It was even jerky just moving the hydrostatic control lever to go faster or slower. However, nothing as bad as what you are describing. Although, I have read about others describing what yours is doing.

After breaking my spine in two places two years ago, I have just been able to operate the machine this season. I completely rebuilt the deluxe seat suspension and put a new high back seat on it so that the ride would be more comfortable. Major difference! Then I started researching to find out how to make it smoother and decided to check the hydrostatic dampener. It was still the original dampener from the factory and it was shot. I replaced it (AM133368 Torsion Dampener Shock/Gas Operated Cylinder $67.56). I also followed protocol for the Neutral Return Linkage Adjustment and checked all of the parts for wear. Everything looked good and I didn't have to replace anything there. The machine was much smoother after that but I was not satisfied and wanted it to be an even smoother ride. (I suffer from severe chronic back pain due to nerve damage and a bad spinal fusion).

"We got the (throttle/direction) linkage adjusted three years ago, but it started showing signs of getting back out of alignment after about 10 to 12 hours of use. We had the hydrostatic dampener changed out also, but I still could not see much of a change in its behavior."

I imagine that you probably have some worn out bushings or parts in your linkage that need to be replaced. It also may not have had the friction disk adjusted properly for the hydrostatic control lever.

I then decided to upgrade to the (Optional) Hydrostatic Transmission Damper Control Kit AM116222 (477266 - 999000).
This kit of course is no longer available from John Deere but they do still sell most of the parts individually. In short, I think this may be what you need to fix your problem. Even if not, it sure beats the price of a hydro pump/tranny. Here is a link to the correct forum thread where you will find a plethora of information about this problem and how to cure it. If this is not the fix to your problem then at least you will be in the correct thread to get information for your fix.

Even a Rev 4 Hydraulic Linkages Can Go Bad - Page 5

I sure hope that this helps you!

 

[darrollr]

Sorry, this link takes you to the proper first page.

Even a Rev 4 Hydraulic Linkages Can Go Bad

 

[beenthere]

darrollr
Good information you provided.

Note: that you can edit your posts, if corrections are needed. Handy tool to be able to do that.

 

[Squidbait]

However, I found another forum thread that talks about building new spindles all together so I am planning on going that route.

That is cool darrollr. I did not even think about doing a search for building a spindle. Good luck with your tractor, and thanks for the information kind sir.

 

[darrollr]

darrollr
Good information you provided.

Note: that you can edit your posts, if corrections are needed. Handy tool to be able to do that.

how do I edit a post? I have searched and I cannot figure out how.