4310/4410 whats the difference

timb · Feb 14, 2003

JMIII

Great stuff. Can you post the chart for the 4TNE84? (I think that's the 4510/4610 engine). That should settle this 4410 vs. the 4-cyl engines torque question once and for all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I read the bottom chart correctly - it looks like there is no fuel usage penalty worth mentioning with the bigger 4710 engine - that is if you're drawing 30HP on the PTO for a mower under a given field condition - both engines are going to consume exactly the same amount of fuel per hour? (OK - with maybe a tick more just moving the heavier 4710). But - you have the "reserve" power available in the bigger motor when needed.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 14, 2003

Are these charts specific to Yanmar OEM engines? Could it be that in the Deere application, other factors such as injector pump specs affect this? I really don't have a clue, just wondering....

Anonymous Poster · Feb 14, 2003

Can I say, I love my 4300 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(my wife can verify that) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

timb · Feb 14, 2003

OK. Someone who's more of an engineer than I (I do software, my brother's the ME) can say if this is wrong - and please do /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif, but I've always read it that torque and hp are directly and mathematically related.

Torque (lb-ft) = (Horsepower * 5252) / RPM of Horsepower rating.

Since the JD engines are all rated at the same RPM (2600) that factor goes away. Therefore the relative torque output is directly related to the relative HP of the different engines - there's no "hidden" torque-creating factor involved. There's a lot of factors (stroke length, piston area, swept volume) that come into play to get to those numbers, but once you're there - hp and torque and rpm are all glued to each other.

The 4410/4510/4610/4710 deliver 35/39/44/48 hp (gross) respectively - and since this is all at the same rpm - the torque at that rating rpm *must* increase in that order. The 4410 can not be in 2nd place (unless the hp ratings are wrong.) Now what happens at other rpms can definitely vary from that order - but from JMIII's charts it looks like the engine series are very linear in their growth.

I'll chalk the rest up to misprints in JD's literature. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (and apologies for going so far OT)

JohnMiller3 · Feb 14, 2003

( did you work with the CIA? )

Later, when I have more time... I'll tell ya a true story about the CIA... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

JohnMiller3 · Feb 14, 2003

Yanmar's Diesels

..JD4310....................Yanmar Powerplants.............JD4510/4610..

JohnMiller3 · Feb 14, 2003

( Are these charts specific to Yanmar OEM engines?)

Yes...

( Could it be that in the Deere application, other factors such as injector pump specs affect this? )

Yes...

The mfr. will usually show their "best face" when it comes to spec's... so I'm assuming these charts as continuous duty to do just that... but like any engine... you can tweak them up/down... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rockyridgefarm · Feb 14, 2003

( but like any engine... you can tweak them up/down.)

So it IS possible that Deere has the 4410 set a little "hotter"; seeing it is their largest offering in that frame size. If a buyer wants a particularly "hot" unit in a mid chassis - they might be willing to pay a premium. Actually price is seldom tied to fixed cost of production, but on "price points" or sometimes, even snob appeal.

I, personally, may well be in the range of the 4410. I need all the power I can get, but the mid frame size would be a plus, with a gazillion trees and crazy topography to traverse.

I have checked all over and I think the torque number is right for the 4410, and the 101ci is the right displacement. I sure don't mind being corrected, if that could be verified. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

rationalizer · Feb 16, 2003

Timb,

You are correct - at a given rpm torque and HP are directly related. My earlier post may have been misleading - I was trying to "rationalize" JD's numbers - which appear to be wrong. I hadn't looked at the rated rpm - which is critical. It appears that the JD 4X10 line has a nice linear progression for hp and torque - you pay more you get more.

Bill

rockyridgefarm · Mar 7, 2003

This subject has haunted me. From a very little digging I got the following from the Deere Owners Manual for mid-chassis CUT's Thia restates JMIII's info,, from Deere's angle.

By no means should it be considered inerrant /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 Manufacturer Yanmar

Model Number (4210) 3TNE82A

Model Number (4310) 3TNE84

Model Number (4410) 3TNE88

Type Diesel

Cylinders 3

Gross Horsepower (4210) 20.2 kW (27.0 hp)

Gross Horsepower (4310) 23.2 kW (31.2 hp)

Gross Horsepower (4410) 25.8 kW (34.6 hp)

Manufacturer's Estimated PTO Horsepower (4210 SyncShift) 17.5 kW (23.5 hp)

Manufacturer's Estimated PTO Horsepower (4210 eHydro) 16.4 kW (22.0 hp)

Manufacturer's Estimated PTO Horsepower (4310 SyncShift and ePowrReverser) 20.1 kW (27.0 hp)

Manufacturer's Estimated PTO Horsepower (4310 eHydro) 19.0 kW (25.5 hp)

Manufacturer's Estimated PTO Horsepower (4410 ePowrReverser) 22.4 kW (30.0 hp)

Manufacturer's Estimated PTO Horsepower (4410 eHydro) 21.3 kW (28.5 hp)

Rated Engine Speed 2600 rpm

Operating Range 1000-2810 rpm

Engine Torque @ Rated Speed (4210) 71.0 N·m (52.4 lb-ft)

Engine Torque @ Rated Speed (4310) 78.5 N·m (57.9 lb-ft)

Engine Torque @ Rated Speed (4410) 87.9 N·m (64.8 lb-ft)

Compression Ratio 18.5:1