450D Toro dead

[swartb]

Been a lurker for years but this is my first post. I have a '98 Toro Reelmaster with a Mitsubishi 4DQ5 diesel engine. Yesterday I started it and backed it out of the barn and in about 20ft it died. After a little inspection it looked like the shut off solenoid wire had become disconnected. So, I put it back together. Cranks fine but no start. No smoke out the exhaust. I have tried bleeding and the fuel is getting to the injectors but no start. I have taken the shutoff solenoid off and it works fine. Getting power and retracting as it should. Anyone ever messed with these? Any suggestions?

 

[Xfaxman]

:welcome: to TractorByNet! :thumbsup:

It only needs air, fuel and compression. If it has compression, maybe the fuel pump timing is off.

That is a bigger engine than my 325D has.

 

[swartb]

:welcome: to TractorByNet! :thumbsup:

It only needs air, fuel and compression. If it has compression, maybe the fuel pump timing is off.

That is a bigger engine than my 325D has.
View attachment 390385 View attachment 390386

I have now checked the tank, the hoses, and changed the filter and bled. Instructions are to break the fittings on injector 1 and 2 with key on and engine cranking until no air. There is some fuel coming out the nozzle fittings, but it is not what I would expect from a DAP pump. So, I think the shaft is OK, but am wondering about the metering valve. I hate to have to pull the pump but I pressure washed it this evening in case I have to do that. Anyone know what I should expect to see in terms of pressure from a loosened nozzle fitting?

 

[Stimw]

Did you check the filter and bowl (if it has one) for water?
You might have to purge until you get clean fuel.

 

[Topher265]

How about checking the fuel flow from the electric pump that gets the fuel to the mechanical pump?

 

[swartb]

Update and responses. There is no water. New fuel and filter. There is no electric pump. The is a CAV DPS injection unit with an internal mechanical pump that pulls in fuel from the tank thru the filter. I removed the pump and took it to the repair shop. Shaft appears OK. Not as much fuel drained from the unit as I would have inspected. I am thinking some type internal fuel delivery obstruction since there was no smoke on cranking. Awaiting their diagnosis.

 

[swartb]

Got the injector pump back from "rebuild" yesterday and installed. Bled the system. New Filter and fuel. Diesel to the injector nozzles. No start. No smoke. Strong battery. WD 40 no help.

 

[TonyBMI]

Had a 455D and they are about the same machine. Take a Good piece of fuel hose and connect in place of the hose going from tank to pump. Put fuel in a clean clear plastic gallon jug. Try starting that way. I am thinking you have a deteriorated fuel suction line. Or a suction tube is cracked allowing air in to the system. THe company I was with was going to junk a wood chipper as they could not get it to run. Only to find the suction hose had a small crack and allowed air in. You can also do the same thi8g with the return hose at the same time and watch the return fuel for flow and bubbles. I am betting will start just find using the jugs

 

[swartb]

Had a 455D and they are about the same machine. Take a Good piece of fuel hose and connect in place of the hose going from tank to pump. Put fuel in a clean clear plastic gallon jug. Try starting that way. I am thinking you have a deteriorated fuel suction line. Or a suction tube is cracked allowing air in to the system. THe company I was with was going to junk a wood chipper as they could not get it to run. Only to find the suction hose had a small crack and allowed air in. You can also do the same thi8g with the return hose at the same time and watch the return fuel for flow and bubbles. I am betting will start just find using the jugs

Thanks Tony. great thoughts! I did get it started today. I removed the air intake hose, disconnected the exhaust, sprayed WD40 in the intake, nothing worked. I went to HF and bought a diesel compression tester. Pulled the nozzles and go 440 PSI per cylinder. On last cylinder I noticed the compression strokes were now throwing Fuel out the nozzle holes. Put the nozzles back in, heated it a little and it fired right up. It is a little "clattery" and has some gray smoke. I think I may have to ****** it a little, but that's a project for tomorrow! Thanks again for the input.

 

[TonyBMI]

Glad it help. Was not what I thought it was but it worked Now if I could figure out my problem and or have the JD dealer find the problem Darn after 7 weeks and 2 trips still nothing. Wondering about the wisdom of buying green

 

[Topher265]

Thanks Tony. great thoughts! I did get it started today. I removed the air intake hose, disconnected the exhaust, sprayed WD40 in the intake, nothing worked. I went to HF and bought a diesel compression tester. Pulled the nozzles and go 440 PSI per cylinder. On last cylinder I noticed the compression strokes were now throwing Fuel out the nozzle holes. Put the nozzles back in, heated it a little and it fired right up. It is a little "clattery" and has some gray smoke. I think I may have to ****** it a little, but that's a project for tomorrow! Thanks again for the input.

So your problem was something cured by the pump rebuild? But when reinstalling you mistimed the pump so then it still wouldn't start but because of a different issue, right?

Just clarifying for anyone that reads this in the future

 

[swartb]

Well, that's a good question. I'm not sure what the original problem could have been. I still haven't been able to resolve the smoke clatter issue. Have advance and retarded and everything in between. To include the original setting a couple of times. Thought maybe air in a line but it's hitting on all four and loosening each nozzle fitting noticeably slows the engine. Runs and sounds great at idle but the minute you run up the RPM and engage the cutting reels, it sounds like it is going to fly apart (clatter) and the exhaust smoke is considerable gray or black depending on the timing setting. It has just never done that before. It would smoke black a litte when lugging up a steep hill, but otherwise no noticeable smoke. The guy that "refreshed" the pump, didn't find anything physically wrong with the pump other than some rust that needed to be cleaned. He has 30yr experience and I'm confident he is a straight shooter. Said he didn't alter the fuel settings. I've run out of ideas! It ran great stopped not starts but isn't right.

 

[swartb]

Well, it has been nearly 6 years and nothing has changed. Decided to try again. Cleaned the fuel tank, checked exhaust restriction, checked intake and filter, and cleaned the injectors. Has a 16 tooth crank gear, 43 tooth idle gear, and 32 teeth cam and injector gear. Manually turned the crank a lot to get "3" to verify with 3 on injector. Readily starts, clatters a little on acceleration, idles smoothly, accelerates smoothly, quiet at higher RPMs, but as soon as the reels are engaged, black smoke biillows and the clattering is deafening. Loses power and will not pull itself and mow at the same time! Almost has to be injector pump as nothing else really changed. May pull it and send it somewhere else. It is a CAV DAP on a Mitsubishi 4DQ5.