4X20 series

[rockyridgefarm]

Why do you guys keep whinin' about the 4720?

It ISN'T the replacement for the 4710.

A 4520 still has awesome power and HAS a reverser.

You need to look at the 4720 as the baddest HST Tractor going.

If you NEED a bigger reverser than the 4520, Deere has plenty to choose from. And if you really do need a reverser that big, you probably NEED to look at them.

Remember, one of the big ideas that was indicated early on, was that Deere would be simplifying the model structure. I am amazed that there are so many models, still.

Dropping draft control was pretty lame.

 

[cowboydoc]

<font color="red">Why do you guys keep whinin' about the 4720?

</font>

I keep whining about it because to me it would have been an answer to some problems for me. While I love the compact and being able to go around tight spots, in and out of the barn with ease, putting in posts, etc. etc. that makes the compact ideal, it is underpowered for my uses. Ideally I should be using something like a 5320 or 5420. I'm not going to give up the compact though because of it's small size. The 4720 was the answer for my problems. But I don't care what people say I know that the hydro robs more than a couple hp. It's more like 20%. Take 20% off the 58 hp and I'm down to where I am now. With the pump turned up on mine I'm making 43 pto hp. The 4720 with the hydro would probably be close to this.

My problem is when raking hay, moving hay, pulling a mower, harrow, disc, aerator, overseeder, etc. I run out of power and have to go too slow. I like to be able to go as fast as the job will let me. That isn't always the case with the 4600. With the 4720 with a gear transmission there would be a great improvement and get me up to the power or a 5320.

That's why I'm whining. It's like giving candy to a kid and taking it away. Man let the crying begin. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[KNotMe]

<font color="blue">But I don't care what people say I know that the hydro robs more than a couple hp. It's more like 20%. </font>

Where did the 20% come from?

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But I don't care what people say I know that the hydro robs more than a couple hp. It's more like 20%. Take 20% off the 58 hp and I'm down to where I am now. With the pump turned up on mine I'm making 43 pto hp. The 4720 with the hydro would probably be close to this. Man let the crying begin. )</font>

Let me be the 1st to whine! I think there's going to be some minor pump adjustments to the lesser HP 20 series machines. I like the torque #'s a turbo gives.

MANUFACTURER John Deere

MODEL 4720 Compact Tractor (58 hp)

Engine

Manufacturer John Deere 4024T

Aspiration Turbo

Cylinders/Displacement, cu. in. (liters) 4 / 148.9 (2.44)

Cylinder Liners Cast-in-Block

Performance

Advertised PTO HP (kW) @ Rated RPM 50 (37.3) @ 2400

Engine Gross HP(kW) @ Rated Speed 58.1 (43.3) @ 2400

 

[Woodbeef]

Hey Doc,

Just out of curiosity,do you happen to know if anybody has actually dynoed any of the 4x10s after they've had a few hours on them? Would be interesting to see the geared vs hydro figures from infield tests........Man this is going to be a weird comment coming from me,but I tend to think you are on the right track with your idea on how much the shiftless tranny robs hp. Be nice to know a bit more about the amount.

 

[timb]

<font color="red"> WARNING! Dangerous hydro-vs-gear comments follow! </font> /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

(Not saying one is intrinsically better than the other but there are engineering differences whose total impact is not usually published.)

Running a PTO dyno would be interesting but it won't reveal the whole story. As far as I know those tractor dyno's are not 'rolling road' types so the the tractor is effectively parked. In that case the PTO readings (hydro vs. gear) will only show the 'parasitic' loss of running the tranny pump with the tractor stationary - and that's probably only going to be the couple of hp usually stated.

Now - with the tractor under a 'draft load' moving both itself and the 'implement' and the pump then meeting more hydraulic resistance - that PTO loss % number may climb relative to the gear version as fluid power transfer is simply not as efficient as a gear train.

But - there is also likely to be a difference in how much power is making it to the rear wheels for that draft effort. Until someone does a Nebraska-like drawbar hp test - with properly ballasted tractors we will only be able to guess. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Until someone does a Nebraska-like drawbar hp test - with properly ballasted tractors we will only be able to guess.


They have done them on utility tractors and it is typically a 20% loss under load. The big combines with the hydros are 30-40% power loss under load, pulling. But you don't pull with a combine so it's usually a non-factor. That's why you see hydros in combines and not tractors. That's also why you're seeing the IVT's and other infinite gear transmissions and not hydros. The power loss is too great.

Woodbeef,

As of right now, "on the record", they don't test the compacts like they do the bigger tractors. "Off the record" these tests have been done and the power losses under load are in the 20% range.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

OK, Doc, your logic is great. With one exception. Aren't you are wanting Deere to offer a stock machine that is an improvement over your tweaked 4600? The new stock machine is superior to the old stock one, and tweaked, wouldn't it be capable of similar improvements as your 4600?

 

[cowboydoc]

Yea but you can't tweak them and still get warranty coverage.

 

[SteveH_CT]

Since I believe you know, or even better, are related to someone who does these tests... why aren't they done "on the record" for the compacts? Are they just too busy testing the larger equipment? I'm just curious, since I'm someone who enjoys having hard facts that are gathered by standardized testing - not opinion and hyperbole stating "mines better than yours" because the sales brochure says so. I tend to look at stats in brochures to be of questionable veracity... with the exception of JD's of course /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.