5105 engine surging

[aebsmithcreek]

Hello all, my 5105 started surging at mid and high rpm's so I drained the fuel tank and purged it with about 5 gallons of new fuel, changed filter and had a short lived improvement. Now it surges to the point of shutting down even at low rpm's and is extremely hard to restart. I drained the filter today and primed by hand, very few bubbles were present but it was still a bear to get started. When it started at high rpm the exhaust smoke was white and then went black before it shut down, this was the first try. It took quite a few attempts to get it to stay running and I didn't run it very much above idle because I had a set of concrete steps to unload from my truck and get moved and I was afraid it would die if I offered it any fuel. One thing that I noticed that I don't remember happening before is that when it started the plunger on the priming pump would be sucked down as if the manual priming pump was under a vacuum, is this normal and I just haven't noticed it before?
I am going to dump the fuel again, replace the fuel filter and at the advice of another replace the fitting at the bottom of the fuel tank. If I remember right he told me the factory fitting is a check that is prone to sticking and impeding the flow of fuel. The advice came from a heavy equipment mechanic with a outfit I used to work for, he told me that they replaced the fitting on every John Deere tractor in the fleet the first time it came in for repair.
Is my thought process correct or should I be looking elsewhere?
Many Thanks,
Earl.

 

[Quebecguy]

My 5205 has two fuel filters and I suspect your tractor does too. Replace them both and check for fuel flow,

 

[Tx Jim]

If your tractor has inline filter(item 29) have you changed it? Is fuel tank venting when engine is operating?

 

[aebsmithcreek]

Thank you both for the reply. I did not notice a inline filter but to be honest I was in a bind at the time and really didn't suspect or look for one. I didn't mess with it today because of the wonderful weather we had last night and today and I have to go visit with my mother tomorrow so it will be Saturday before I can get back on it but when I do I will make sure to check that and replace it if there is one. I bought this tractor used and it was used for clearing so if there was one it could have been drug off at some point and simply not replaced, I say this because I cleaned some thick scrub with it right after I bought it and snagged the fuel line and it yanked loose.
Thanks again and I will post back as soon as I can get something accomplished.
Oh, I forgot to add that I did try taking one of the fuel caps completely off and it made no difference.

 

[Quebecguy]

The inline filter on mine is located at the rear top of the motor just behind the valve cover.

 

[AWSubie]

Have u checked the air filter?

 

[aebsmithcreek]

The inline filter on mine is located at the rear top of the motor just behind the valve cover.

Is that on JD tractor?

Sorry, I see you have the 5205

 

[aebsmithcreek]

Have u checked the air filter?

I have checked it even though it was replaced probably less than 50 hours ago. I do appreciate your asking though because I tend to anticipate the complicated. At work I used to tell my guys that sometimes when you hear hoof beats it's just a horse not a giraffe but at home when it's my money I seem to always hear giraffes.
Many Thanks, all the responses are sincerely appreciated.

 

[Quebecguy]

That inline filter is not mentioned in my Operator's Manual, not even in any of the maintenance schedules.

 

[Tx Jim]

That inline filter is not mentioned in my Operator's Manual, not even in any of the maintenance schedules.

In line fuel filter presence/location could possibly be determined by different models 5105 vs 5205 or year models.

 

[IrishLoader]

White smoke from a diesel in my green suiter days usually ment raw fuel in the exhaust. You ruled out your fuel system up to your filters, how about those injectors? I would rule out the injector pump timing as a source but partially clogged injectors? Slow flow to the filters from the tank? Your location rules out any ice related issues but my money is on a fault with the injectors.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

Thanks I.L.
I am still not happy with the fuel tank either. Like you I live in the middle of nowhere and got 20 gallons of fuel out of a 100 gallon tank at the nearest mom and pop and that is where the trouble started. when I drained the tank I caught samples in quart mason jars and it looked like nearly as much water as fuel so the fuel tank is going to get another flushing and cleaning and a new fitting. The 2cd fuel filter has never been changed, I didn't even know it was there so I picked one up yesterday but was unable to locate the final filter so I ordered it online. I also bought new fuel line where I bought the inline filter and since everything is going to be open to air anyway I may as well change it as well since it has some cracking were it bends to tie to the injectors. I haven't took anything apart yet because as it stands now with a little effort I can get it to run and use it and living where I live that gives some peace of mind, especially with the weather we have been having.
Thank you all, as soon as I can get all the parts and get started I will work from the tank forward and let you all know the result.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Seems you've determined water in fuel. I have taken off fuel/water filters, dumped and blown them out, and put them back on. Many have drain cocks on the bottom. Good thing you put new fuel line in place, old ones crack and lose their prime. Hope who ever had it before you did not do away with the main filter, you do not want debris getting to your fuel pump or injectors. In fact, I installed an extra inline fuel filter on our 5420 to make sure the engine was getting clean fuel....

 

[aebsmithcreek]

Seems you've determined water in fuel. I have taken off fuel/water filters, dumped and blown them out, and put them back on. Many have drain cocks on the bottom. Good thing you put new fuel line in place, old ones crack and lose their prime. Hope who ever had it before you did not do away with the main filter, you do not want debris getting to your fuel pump or injectors. In fact, I installed an extra inline fuel filter on our 5420 to make sure the engine was getting clean fuel....

Thanks Kyle, The response is much appreciated. The drain cock on the final filter is how I first discovered water. I bled off water for what seemed like a very long time, reprimed and started and it didn't run long before the surging was back. Bled it off again and this time some nasty tinged fuel came with it. This process has been repeated many times even after the fuel was dumped and filter and fuel changed, that is what makes me think that the inline filter that I didn't even know was there may be the culprit and at around 1200 hours I would think it needs to be changed regardless. The final filter is cheap enough compared to the aggravation of the surging that it is worth changing to me.
I haven't put the new fuel line in yet, I live about 70 miles from anywhere but a NAPA and Tractor Supply and neither of them had the final filter and since at this point I can still run the tractor I decided not to crack it open until I have all the parts.
Question: is there any reason that I couldn't or shouldn't move the inline filter to a more accessible location? I found it after QuebecGuy posted about it and it is going to be a pretty good chore to get to.
Thanks again,
Creek.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I bought a smallish filter, about 2" diameter x 3" long. I put it inline just before the manual fuel pump. It is not intended to catch water, just debris. I left the fuel cap untightened once, and after shredding about 15 acres, I realized it had come off and was dangling by it's tether chain.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

Hey Folks, sorry for the delay, have had some issues with my wife's father and mothers health needs that have delayed me and in between I have been putting out fires, it never rains, it always pours. I did finally get all the parts except the tank fitting and to be honest I had forgot it until Sunday afternoon when I wanted to start on it and since I can still start it and run it I don't want to open it up until I have all the parts to finish, basically I don't want to drain the tank twice. I have to meet someone to look at his property tomorrow so hopefully I can get the fitting for the tank then with any luck and get on it when the storms pass which the weather man says will be Friday afternoon.
Thanks to all you folks, I appreciate your help very much.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

I know this thread is kinda dead but wanted to check in. I have still not tackled the tractor, it seems I have added to my wifes burden, I shattered the left rear of my pelvis and tore the ligament loose that holds the front halves in place. I now have a bunch of hardware and metal plate holding everything together and will be at least another month before I will be able to start trying to walk, I am not sure how well I will be able to move as far as bending and twisting goes but I expect to make a good recovery, maybe not 100% but close. I have broken my back and ruptured discs and thought I new what pain was, I didn't but I do now, LOL.
As soon as I can get mobile and agile enough I will get back on this project and check in again. Thanks again to all who chimed in, it is sincerely appreciated.

 

[bearthebruce]

Take care and may you have a speedy recovery.

 

[plastikosmd]

Damn!

wow, what a bad run of luck

my last 2 yrs has been similar

count your blessings and heal up

 

[aebsmithcreek]

I am without doubt blessed and thank God for all his blessings. It was a horse wreck and I take all the blame, the horse was just being a horse. She is a 3 year old that I have about 10 rides outside on, she has the worst temper of any horse that I have ever owned or ridden and I have been at it since I was 9. Got my first pony at 4 but I don't count that.
Thanks for the good wishes and prayers are welcomed.