Oil & Fuel 5225: Changed final fuel filter - engine started, then stopped.

[Creekpaddler]

I changed the final fuel filter two days ago on my 5225. Then I primed the fuel system following the procedure in the maintenance manual: "loosen the bleed screw... ...Push the priming pump until fuel runs out smoothly". Then repeat the process.

The engine started up, then sputtered and died. It will not start up now. I suspect air in the fuel lines. When I pushed the priming pump, I did not feel very much resistance. And I pushed it many times.

I did not have this trouble when I changed the filter last year. There is fuel flowing to the filter, and there are no air bubbles coming from the fuel tank.

What do I need to do to fix this problem?

 

[kuboman]

I changed the final fuel filter two days ago on my 5225. Then I primed the fuel system following the procedure in the maintenance manual: "loosen the bleed screw... ...Push the priming pump until fuel runs out smoothly". Then repeat the process.

The engine started up, then sputtered and died. It will not start up now. I suspect air in the fuel lines. When I pushed the priming pump, I did not feel very much resistance. And I pushed it many times.

I did not have this trouble when I changed the filter last year. There is fuel flowing to the filter, and there are no air bubbles coming from the fuel tank.

What do I need to do to fix this problem?

You may need to crack the injector lines.

 

[Zebrafive]

Also if the pump is at the high point on the cam it will not pump with the lever. You need to crank the engine and hope it stops at a different point on the pump cam.

 

[Creekpaddler]

I've tried cranking it several times, but no dice. It wants to start - just no fuel. And there is fuel in the line between filter and engine block.

 

[kuboman]

I've tried cranking it several times, but no dice. It wants to start - just no fuel. And there is fuel in the line between filter and engine block.

Crack the injector lines at the injectors and crank till you get fuel with no air coming out.

 

[JD5210]

Went to JD parts to see what the injector looks like on a 5225 and the following is what I found #12 (RE530825). Is bleeding this done any differently?

The following is more for future reference, but thought I would include it. It came from a Utah State publications.

When you change a diesel fuel filter, run out of fuel or disturb the fuel system, air is trapped. When you try to start the engine this air acts as a lock, preventing the normal supply of fuel into the cylinder.
Here are the steps to take in bleeding air from a diesel fuel system:
1. Turn off fuel valve.
2. Clean outside of filter housing.
3. Install new filter element and new gaskets. A little oil on the gasket will aid a tight seal.
4. I'd suggest that you fill a spin-on filter with clean fuel before installation.
5. Open the bleed plug on the filter closest to the fuel tank.
6. Open fuel supply valve so that the fuel is available to the filter and pump.
7. Most all equipment has a hand priming pump lever to pump fuel through the system and replace trapped air. (Check operator's manual.) Pump several times until full flow, without air bubbles, escapes from the bleed plug holes.
8. You may need to bleed filters, fuel pump and lines to the injectors.
9. Close bleed plugs after all air is removed from the fuel tank, filters, settlement bulb, and fuel pump (only one at a time working through all bleed screws beginning closest to tank and ending at nozzles if necessary).
10. Try the engine; if it doesn't start or runs poorly, you may have to bleed the injection line.
11. Loosen injection lines at the injectors about one turn. The use of two wrenches will prevent the binding or twisting of the steel lines. Usually, it is enough to bleed just half of the lines at a time.
12. Crank the engine until all air is forced out and fuel is present.
13. Engine will start to pop on one or two cylinders.
14. Tighten the injector lock nut one at a time to tell by sound which cylinders are firing properly.
15. Run the engine until it runs smoothly. This will bleed the other injectors.
No attempt should be made to service the injection pump or nozzles. This requires special tools and know how. All new gaskets, O-rings, and seals will have to be replaced to prevent leaking.

 

[kuboman]

Went to JD parts to see what the injector looks like on a 5225 and the following is what I found #12 (RE530825). Is bleeding this done any differently?

The following is more for future reference, but thought I would include it. It came from a Utah State publications.

When you change a diesel fuel filter, run out of fuel or disturb the fuel system, air is trapped. When you try to start the engine this air acts as a lock, preventing the normal supply of fuel into the cylinder.
Here are the steps to take in bleeding air from a diesel fuel system:
1. Turn off fuel valve.
2. Clean outside of filter housing.
3. Install new filter element and new gaskets. A little oil on the gasket will aid a tight seal.
4. I'd suggest that you fill a spin-on filter with clean fuel before installation.
5. Open the bleed plug on the filter closest to the fuel tank.
6. Open fuel supply valve so that the fuel is available to the filter and pump.
7. Most all equipment has a hand priming pump lever to pump fuel through the system and replace trapped air. (Check operator's manual.) Pump several times until full flow, without air bubbles, escapes from the bleed plug holes.
8. You may need to bleed filters, fuel pump and lines to the injectors.
9. Close bleed plugs after all air is removed from the fuel tank, filters, settlement bulb, and fuel pump (only one at a time working through all bleed screws beginning closest to tank and ending at nozzles if necessary).
10. Try the engine; if it doesn't start or runs poorly, you may have to bleed the injection line.
11. Loosen injection lines at the injectors about one turn. The use of two wrenches will prevent the binding or twisting of the steel lines. Usually, it is enough to bleed just half of the lines at a time.
12. Crank the engine until all air is forced out and fuel is present.
13. Engine will start to pop on one or two cylinders.
14. Tighten the injector lock nut one at a time to tell by sound which cylinders are firing properly.
15. Run the engine until it runs smoothly. This will bleed the other injectors.
No attempt should be made to service the injection pump or nozzles. This requires special tools and know how. All new gaskets, O-rings, and seals will have to be replaced to prevent leaking.

The directions given are quite precise. Just follow them and it will start.

 

[Creekpaddler]

Does anybody have a link to a pdf for the shop manual for the JD 3.0L Powertech 5 cyl diesel turbo engine?

 

[rrrkkk]

Sometimes when you can't get it bled we have pressurized the fuel tank. don't get crazy, a small amount of air from your compressor is all that is needed when you crack the lines to bleed.

 

[JD3520Turbo]

Before we figured out that the fuel gauge quit working in our Ford Tractor we ran it out of fuel, and we dragged it with a pickup to start it. Took a little while, but spinning the engine that fast pushed the air out and it fired up and had no issues with it. Happened twice and we did that both times.

There is always ether.

 

[JD5210]

Here is a link were you can purchase it from JD. If you are near a dealer I think you can order it from them save you the shipping.

You might want to look on E-Bay, it might be cheaper.

John Deere Ag - New Equipment: Technical Publications - Publications Search

 

[Creekpaddler]

Thanks for the info about the bleeding procedure and about the tech manual. I just ordered a CD-ROM of it from SelectManuals.com. Decent price.

I removed the hood last night and scoped out the job. Just getting to the point where I can remove the sealed valve cover will take a lot of wrench work: have to take off the air-intake pipes and the hood bracket. Seems like a lot of effort just to get to the fuel lines to crack them. But that's the way it looks now. Oh well... I may just wait for that CD to arrive.

 

[PCABE5]

In your cranking of the engine where did you have the throttle positioned? How long in each burst did you crank the engine?

Be very careful cracking injector lines. If that is the route you go.

 

[kuboman]

Is your fuel tank full? After reading the manual I am not sure I would mess with the injector lines. I did not realize they were buried in the head. I would keep at their bleeding procedure. Is this a common rail system or does it still have a standard injection pump. Make sure it is getting only fuel to the IP. If you can apply some pressure to the fuel tank. Be careful with this as you can rupture your tank and also have fuel blow back when the pressure is released.

I think it is common rail so I would strongly suggest NOT messing with the injectors. Keep at the priming procedure.

 

[Creekpaddler]

In your cranking of the engine where did you have the throttle positioned? How long in each burst did you crank the engine?

Be very careful cracking injector lines. If that is the route you go.

I set the throttle slide about 1/4-to-1/3 of the way up from idle. Cranked for 5-10 seconds. When there was fuel, the engine would start right up.

 

[Creekpaddler]

Is your fuel tank full? After reading the manual I am not sure I would mess with the injector lines. I did not realize they were buried in the head. I would keep at their bleeding procedure. Is this a common rail system or does it still have a standard injection pump. Make sure it is getting only fuel to the IP. If you can apply some pressure to the fuel tank. Be careful with this as you can rupture your tank and also have fuel blow back when the pressure is released.

I think it is common rail so I would strongly suggest NOT messing with the injectors. Keep at the priming procedure.

The fuel tank is full. Each cylinder has its own injector pump; there is no common rail. Today the mechanic at the local JD dealer recommended that I clean the manual primer pump that is mounted on top of the final fuel filter. He believes that should take care of the problem. He also said that removing the valve cover should not be necessary. He didn't suggest applying pressure to the fuel tank, though I didn't ask about that.

In case the engine still won't start, I've scheduled a visit by the dealer mechanic for next week. $$

 

[om21braz]

Don't lose heart, on the JD 4120 I had with, I believe, the 2.4L PowerTech engine - it took at least 10 cycles of pump-up and start attempts to get it running. Far more difficult than other diesels I've changed the fuel filter/filters on, but eventually it started. It ran rough for 30 seconds or so upon initial start-up.

 

[jd110]

You can try pinching off the return fuel hose going to the tank. I have had luck getting them primed this way when all else seems to fail. Also try continuing to pump the primer while cranking.

 

[PCABE5]

I set the throttle slide about 1/4-to-1/3 of the way up from idle. Cranked for 5-10 seconds. When there was fuel, the engine would start right up.

I was only curious. Every manual I have ever read on this type of issue (with your style injection system), i.e. fuel filter change or running out of fuel, has always stated to put it to full throttle while cranking. Then it will chug and shack until the air gets out and decrease throttle as it stabilizes. This was the way my old Cummins behaved after a filter change.

 

[RalphVa]

One time in 25 years of owning our 1983 240D, it would not start after a fuel filter change. The problem turned out to be radial cracks in the fuel line going to the primary fuel pump.

Not long after that, I had radial cracks in the fuel lines to/from the fuel tank, too. Think this was at about 12 or 13 years of age.

These were the braided fuel lines with inside synthetic rubber linings. The lining had radial cracks.

Ralph