540 pto to 1000 conversion on spader

[Adelynn]

Hello, looking for help with a possible project. We were advised to convert our spader (Imants SE115RH) with a 540 pto to a 1000 pto. Our tractor (Kubota m5660) doesn't have a creeper gear which means we are spading to fast and not getting the outcome we want. We're hoping that this conversion means we can run the tractor at a lower rpm while still getting the pto output we need to run the spader. Has anyone done this, is it possible? Also I've had no trouble finding an adapter for the pto shaft, is there an adapter out there for the driveline? Is the solution for the driveline issue to be to get a new 1000 rpm driveline and an adapter for the implement as well or is there a cheaper work around? Thanks for any input/help!

 

[Sportsman762]

To change the spader to run on 1000 rpm will require some changes to the spader. You will need to change gears/belts/sprockets/or gearboxes. This will let the spader run correctly on 1000 RPM input. However since your tractor can only run at 540 this will cut the speed that the spader runs in half. So therefor you would have to cut the tractor speed in half to get as many strokes as you currently do. What you need to do is figure out how to increase the PTO speed of the kubota or reduce ground speed. If your machine is equipped with a 540E (540 economy PTO) then it will run the engine at a lower speed reducing the ground speed.

I think E PTO had to be factory installed so it is not viable to add after the fact. I think you will need to find another piece of equipment to do the work of the spader or find a different tractor if the current combo is not achieving your goals. I know that this is not the news you want to hear. Hopefully someone else has a better idea.

 

[zzvyb6]

How about using a hydraulic motor and throttle it as necessary to get a satisfactory speed ? You have enough tractor, now just a motor, hoses, and connection. Maybe a cooler. Size the motor to get the desired spader rpm plus the ground speed you are comfortable with. Seems to me this allows several ground speed options with a corresponding compatible attachment speed.

 

[oldnslo]

Does the M5660 have the option of 1000 RPM PTO output vs 540? If yes then in theory you would just need the 1000 RPM PTO shaft and throttle down your tractor to achieve approximately 540 RPM. Your tractor speed would be reduced while maintaining the spader speed of 540.

What is max input speed for the spader?

 

[Adelynn]

How about using a hydraulic motor and throttle it as necessary to get a satisfactory speed ? You have enough tractor, now just a motor, hoses, and connection. Maybe a cooler. Size the motor to get the desired spader rpm plus the ground speed you are comfortable with. Seems to me this allows several ground speed options with a corresponding compatible attachment speed.

I thought this sounded like the solution after briefly looking into it. I don't have much experience and I posted in another forum as well that's getting more responses than this one. I asked about a hydraulic motor over there and was told "You don't have enough hydraulic flow to run a PTO hydraulic motor. It takes about 4 times more GPM than your tractor is capable of." Do you know if this is true? This guy has shot down everything while everyone else is saying all thing mentions can work if the right parts and engineering is done. I feel like I'm in a worse place than when I started with all the different feedback I am getting.

 

[Harry in Ky]

"This guy" has shot down everything because he is well aware (as I'm sure you soon will be) that what you hope to do here simply won't work. Your tractor is no match for your implement. You should consider a larger tractor to match the implement, or a smaller implement to match your tractor.

 

[5030]

Both my M9's are 540-1000 pto but it's not a cheap date by a long shot. The 540-1000 on mine cost me over a grand and I did the work myself. Additionally, 1000 pto is typically 21 spline not 6 so you still need a 21-6 adapter.

 

[Adelynn]

Found that the tractor doesn't have the correct gpm needed to run an hydraulic motor. I did find that someone was able to achieve this set up with a flow divider though, but on a front mounted implement and voided their warranty. Also the implement and tractor work fine together and I run it at the average speed recommended. I was just trying to see if there was a way I could run the implement at a lower speed. This change was recommended by a veteran farmer with an extremely high reputation so that why I believed it worked. For now I'll stick to keeping the stock set up.

 

[oldnslo]

Adelynn
For hydraulic drive you would to know torque required to run the spader at load. This information along with operating pressure would be used to determine required displacement of the hydraulic motor.

Once motor displacement is calculated you could then determine required flow to achieve desired 540 RPM.

Specs I saw online shows approx 10 GPM flow rate at rated RPM for your tractor.

You could probably achieve approx 11 - 12 HP input to your spader based on the 10 GPM and 2500 PSI.

 

[CliffordK]

"You don't have enough hydraulic flow to run a PTO hydraulic motor. It takes about 4 times more GPM than your tractor is capable of."

Keep looking. You can run a hydraulic pump off of your tractor's PTO which should be able to handle up to about the full HP of your tractor.

I picked up a former government owned PTO driven flail mower. It has a big tank and power unit to carry around on the rear of the tractor.

However, the cheapest method will likely be to change the sprockets or pulleys on your tiller as @Sportsman762 mentioned. Unless you need to do this on several devices.

 

[Sportsman762]

The Kubota M5660 has a 540E PTO as an option taking the operating engine RPM's down from 2500 to 1850 (I think). The M5660 speed at 2500 RPM is 1.6 mph so with 540E it would be 1.2 mph. The M5660 has 10.6 GPM flow on the hydraulics. If it is a 2500 PSI system then you have 15.4 hp of pto power. This is assuming that the lines going to the remotes are able to pass 10.6 GPM and that the tractor is not consuming any of the flow with steering, etc. A 120 cm Imants 27SX120R spader (I could not find your model) requires a min of 30 hp to run.

A hydraulic system that can transmit 30 hp consistently will require 20 GPM at 2500 PSI assuming now flow loss due to lines (probably have to up it to 25 gpm). You will need a tank that holds 1 gallon for every GPM and / or an oil cooler. Oil coolers are hard to keep clean in a dusty enviroment. Your tractor will have to run at 1800 RPM to produce 30 hp (56 engine, 50 pto at 2500 rpm means 6 hp loss so you need 36 engine hp to get 30 PTO)

Kubota M5660 Specs

https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/m5660.pdf?sfvrsn=6aa235a8_4

Hydraulic HP Calculator

Horsepower Calculator - Metaris Hydraulics

Calculate the Hydraulic (fluid power) horsepower.

www.metaris.com

Imants website.

Spading machines - Imants

Enter your e-mail address below and you will receive an e-mail with your filtered selection of machines.

www.imants.com

Engine HP chart.

https://global.engine.kubota.co.jp/ja/products/product_pdf/64_pdf_1.pdf

The best option as you have stated is to use what you have.

For now I'll stick to keeping the stock set up.

 

[bmaverick]

Hello, looking for help with a possible project. We were advised to convert our spader (Imants SE115RH) with a 540 pto to a 1000 pto. Our tractor (Kubota m5660) doesn't have a creeper gear which means we are spading to fast and not getting the outcome we want. We're hoping that this conversion means we can run the tractor at a lower rpm while still getting the pto output we need to run the spader. Has anyone done this, is it possible? Also I've had no trouble finding an adapter for the pto shaft, is there an adapter out there for the driveline? Is the solution for the driveline issue to be to get a new 1000 rpm driveline and an adapter for the implement as well or is there a cheaper work around? Thanks for any input/help!

RJ Link in Rockford, IL has been making gear boxes for Ag for over 30+ years. From small machines up to the big boys.

540 gear box sped up to 1,000 from any of these.
Speed Increasers – RJ Link International, Inc.

They can even put the gear box on your implements too.
Agricultural PTO Gearboxes – RJ Link International, Inc.

They can even reverse the direction or keep it the same,

Specifications:

• Ratios in reduction or increase from 1.02:1 to 2.96:1
• Anti-Engine Rotation
• 25” Center Distance
• Variety of PTO Input and Output Shaft Configurations

Design Features:

• Cast aluminum housing
• Helical ground gears
• Tapered roller bearings
• Modular Mounting

Rj Link International Inc is the go-to solution provider for custom gearboxes. With an innovative team of engineers, sales and support staff, you can look to Rj Link International for complete design to specifications, manufacture to prints or customization of existing proprietary design.

more examples,

PLUS, tell them the Ag color you need and they will match it to your machine !

Speed increase unit example,

 

[CliffordK]

RJ Link in Rockford, IL has been making gear boxes for Ag for over 30+ years. From small machines up to the big boys.

540 gear box sped up to 1,000 from any of these.
Speed Increasers – RJ Link International, Inc.

They can even put the gear box on your implements too.
Agricultural PTO Gearboxes – RJ Link International, Inc.

They can even reverse the direction or keep it the same,
View attachment 846016

Specifications:

• Ratios in reduction or increase from 1.02:1 to 2.96:1
• Anti-Engine Rotation
• 25” Center Distance
• Variety of PTO Input and Output Shaft Configurations

Design Features:

• Cast aluminum housing
• Helical ground gears
• Tapered roller bearings
• Modular Mounting

Rj Link International Inc is the go-to solution provider for custom gearboxes. With an innovative team of engineers, sales and support staff, you can look to Rj Link International for complete design to specifications, manufacture to prints or customization of existing proprietary design.
View attachment 846017

more examples,
View attachment 846018

PLUS, tell them the Ag color you need and they will match it to your machine !

View attachment 846019

Speed increase unit example,
View attachment 846021

Those look pretty SWEET. I'd rather keep the RPMs down a bit, and keep the implement turning.

Plus, if I ever get the Massey Harris running, the PTO is located too high.

Any idea of the MSRP on the various models?

I'm not seeing a female PTO shaft, so mounting will be a little bit tricky.

Many of them also seem to be running with anti-rotation. That would be a big problem with a lot of implements. One might want to think about that with a tiller. Throw the dirt forward or back?

Here are two on E-Bay.

Gear Reduction Reducer Increaser RJ Link D101 VW AugerVac RockVac VacBoss | eBay

GEAR REDUCER Gearbox Reducer Increaser for Industrial Use VW AugerVac, RockVac Super Portable SuperTower, VacBoss, Christianson Conveyors and More. The input would be at the fat part of the gearbox with the output at the smaller end.

www.ebay.com

$295 would be dirt cheap. However it is reverse rotation. 1:1.5 gearing.

GEARBOX RJ LINK RATIO 4/1 INVOLUTE SPLINE SHAFT : 20 TEETH TO 2.2 KEYED SHAFT | eBay

RJ LINK GEARBOX RATIO 4/1 INVOLUTE SPLINE SHAFT : 20 TEETH TO 2.2 KEYED SHAFT.

www.ebay.com

$1300 I assume it is a fixed configuration, and the exact configuration of that one is ambiguous.

 

[bmaverick]

Those look pretty SWEET. I'd rather keep the RPMs down a bit, and keep the implement turning.

Plus, if I ever get the Massey Harris running, the PTO is located too high.

Any idea of the MSRP on the various models?

I'm not seeing a female PTO shaft, so mounting will be a little bit tricky.

Many of them also seem to be running with anti-rotation. That would be a big problem with a lot of implements. One might want to think about that with a tiller. Throw the dirt forward or back?

Here are two on E-Bay.

Gear Reduction Reducer Increaser RJ Link D101 VW AugerVac RockVac VacBoss | eBay

GEAR REDUCER Gearbox Reducer Increaser for Industrial Use VW AugerVac, RockVac Super Portable SuperTower, VacBoss, Christianson Conveyors and More. The input would be at the fat part of the gearbox with the output at the smaller end.

www.ebay.com

$295 would be dirt cheap. However it is reverse rotation. 1:1.5 gearing.

GEARBOX RJ LINK RATIO 4/1 INVOLUTE SPLINE SHAFT : 20 TEETH TO 2.2 KEYED SHAFT | eBay

RJ LINK GEARBOX RATIO 4/1 INVOLUTE SPLINE SHAFT : 20 TEETH TO 2.2 KEYED SHAFT.

www.ebay.com

$1300 I assume it is a fixed configuration, and the exact configuration of that one is ambiguous.

The C-pad pump face in the one image is a female spline.

Yes, these can be made for parallel direction output. So no matter what direction the PTO spins, it will run in the same direction at the same speed, reduced, or increased.

Contacting RJ Link would be the best to determine what options are there for you to use.

You are 100% correct on some of the machines out there with the PTO spline output being so high up.

Also, these can mount on the implemets. I once looked at a 8Hp wood chipper with a bad engine. Taking the engine off, using an RJ Link to allow the increase of 540 to 1,008 would then make the chipper work on a tractor.