5570 - Serious problem and I need some good advice

[MsBehave]

Nothing major. I am actually off the farm running my other business (you know, the one that supports the farm). After charging the battery (again) the tractor tried to start (again). This time I am told it sounded just like it would if the battery was darn near dead - you know that half-hearted-you-know-you're-not-going-anywhere sound. There's lots of other tractor-not-needed projects that are ongoing, so my son is handling those until he has a chance to get back to my temporary lawn ornament. I'll be home next weekend and if a new or known good battery has not been acquired by then, I'll be trying that before pulling the starter.

Good news is the motor turns over by hand and appears to have compression - it's definitely not easy but it is smooth. I promise to post when something of note happens.

And, with regards to a starter, I darn near had a heart attack when I saw the price of a OEM starter. I am going to see if a- it is a warranty part and b - I can just take the starter in as it's a royal pain to haul the tractor in just for that. In the meantime, if one is needed, I will be buying an after-market starter.

 

[sixdogs]

If it's any consolation, an 18" long piece of plain old thin exhaust tubing for the stack above the hood on my Kubota is $180 and a plain, old everyday non-emissions-muffler almost $1,000. So there are two more things that aren't going to happen before heck freezes over.

 

[mike69440]

If it's any consolation, an 18" long piece of plain old thin exhaust tubing for the stack above the hood on my Kubota is $180 and a plain, old everyday non-emissions-muffler almost $1,000. So there are two more things that aren't going to happen before heck freezes over.

Here is an unrelated example of part price insanity.

A Pulsafeeder Chemical injection pump.

Cost to purchase a cheap little PVC injection valve body with Stainless alloy steel Spring and ceramic ball, Plus a rebuild kit, basically gaskets, cost more than the entire new pump assembly which included valve, All fittings tubing, Pump head and motor.

I swear some items Kubota and others sell are marked op 3000 to 10000%, general industry practice is about 300% on larger items to about 1000% on the little stuff. You got to cover inventory, handling and processing and make a profit, but sometimes greed and stupidity, take precedence.

 

[sixdogs]

Years ago I had a major maker disc harrow that I really liked to decided to look into rebuilding it. The parts were so insane I wrote the company. A left rear bearing that at the time might have been $85 (for a $15 part) as an example but the EXACT SAME part that also fit the right rear was something like $265. The exact same part. It's been years so I don't remember the exact prices.

Other parts were the same and even though the left and right were mirror images, the prices were all confused. The company wrote me back and thanked me for the heads up. I'm not into the education business so I sold the discs and bought one built out of fewer proprietary parts. It would have cost a silly amount to rebuild and it wouldn't be long before I would need something else and be right back in the tank again. Adios, beancounters.

 

[hawkeye08]

I had an uncle try and help on the farm years ago, he was going to move the TD14 IHC (starts on gas, switches to diesel) crawler to the shop. It would not start for him (he forgot to turn the gas on) so he pulled the spark plug wires and distributor cap, figuring he wasn't getting spark for some reason. He put it all back together without paying any attention to the order of the wires... When I finally had a chance to go look at it, they had pulled it trying to start it (none of the settings were right to start it).. I spend about 10 minutes putting the spark plug wires back on correctly and checking things, got on it and it started right up on gas, warmed it up, switched to diesel and drove away. That uncle is still clueless to this day, over 30 years later..

hope you get your tractor running..

 

[sd455dan]

If it's any consolation, an 18" long piece of plain old thin exhaust tubing for the stack above the hood on my Kubota is $180 and a plain, old everyday non-emissions-muffler almost $1,000. So there are two more things that aren't going to happen before heck freezes over.

Wow- bought a factory style replacement for my 3000 was $28 and checked on a factory new one for My Rhino was all of $88 and thought that was a bit steep
These guys seem to be taking clues from some of the less scrupulous drug companies:laughing: - maybe that isn't funny

 

[RJI]

MSRP on a complete short block is $5244.60 plus freight. That is complete with oil pan, front gears and cover, of course crank, pistons, etc. You would have to swap the head over and all accessories, fuel system and so forth. Still a ton of money, but it is $21k less than what you were quoted.

I still doubt it is seized. I like the comment about checking the PTO lever...sometimes it can be the simple things we overlook.

I had that happen on my max26... for no apparent reason the PTO lever all of a sudden wouldn't go all the way back to push in the safety switch... this was after I'd been running it for a few hrs... I
shut if off, then went to start again and it wouldn't start... just got lucky after about an hr of frustration and happen to push the PTO lever back and turn the key at the same time...
walla it started... have to do that all the time now...

 

[sixdogs]

I've said many times to start with the easiest answer to a problem and work up from there. Rarely is a complex problem the answer. I've heard of guys tearing into a tractor only to learn they had a PTO switch malfunction.

 

[dickfoster]

Nothing major. I am actually off the farm running my other business (you know, the one that supports the farm). After charging the battery (again) the tractor tried to start (again). This time I am told it sounded just like it would if the battery was darn near dead - you know that half-hearted-you-know-you're-not-going-anywhere sound. There's lots of other tractor-not-needed projects that are ongoing, so my son is handling those until he has a chance to get back to my temporary lawn ornament. I'll be home next weekend and if a new or known good battery has not been acquired by then, I'll be trying that before pulling the starter.

Good news is the motor turns over by hand and appears to have compression - it's definitely not easy but it is smooth. I promise to post when something of note happens.

And, with regards to a starter, I darn near had a heart attack when I saw the price of a OEM starter. I am going to see if a- it is a warranty part and b - I can just take the starter in as it's a royal pain to haul the tractor in just for that. In the meantime, if one is needed, I will be buying an after-market starter.

Either that or take it to a shop that will repair or even rewind it. There are lots of those types of shops around that rebuild starters, alternators etc.

 

[MsBehave]

Well, the saga continues. A new starter was installed, but tractor still would not start. It attempted to engage but, unlike the OEM starter, each time the key was turned it was followed by a brief mild screeching metal-on-metal kind of sound....not a good sound at all. Now the ring gear will not budge. The best tractor mechanic I could get to look at it is convinced it is the main bearing, but we need to remove the oil pan to confirm. Now, for those of you wondering why this has not yet happened, you must understand the oil pan on a 5570 is structural and solid cast iron. Heck the tractor has to be darn near split in order to remove it - seriously. Because the machine is not "indoors" - only under a shed - I have been hesitant to get this deeply into it. As I pondered on just how to get a look at the inner workings without committing to a major motor tear-down, I was reminded a good friend of mine has a nifty little camera for looking inside engines and other tight spots. He is bringing the gadget over in a few days so we are going to drain the oil, again, and take a look with this camera before going any further. If the oil pan looks like a glitter factory, well let's just say Santa's sleigh may be a considerably over-burdened when he drops by my place.

 

[Xfaxman]

Remove the starter and see if the engine will rotate.

 

[DavesTractor]

I wish we weren't 2500 miles apart. This is killing me!

If you had this in a well equipped shop, you would have all the answers you need in a couple of hours. I think it would be worth your time at some point to winch this thing up on a trailer and haul it to the nearest Mahindra dealer, assuming that the nearest dealer is a full service dealer with good "wrenches".

 

[dickfoster]

I wish we weren't 2500 miles apart. This is killing me!

If you had this in a well equipped shop, you would have all the answers you need in a couple of hours. I think it would be worth your time at some point to winch this thing up on a trailer and haul it to the nearest Mahindra dealer, assuming that the nearest dealer is a full service dealer with good "wrenches".

Well if the mountain can't come to Mohammed, Mohammed could always go to the mountain. LOL However, it's not the best time of year to go there or anywhere else except maybe Hawaii.

 

[MsBehave]

I wish we weren't 2500 miles apart. This is killing me!

If you had this in a well equipped shop, you would have all the answers you need in a couple of hours. I think it would be worth your time at some point to winch this thing up on a trailer and haul it to the nearest Mahindra dealer, assuming that the nearest dealer is a full service dealer with good "wrenches".

Yeah, my dealer has already said they will not rebuild and it will be $26K for a new motor. They diagnosed the issue over the phone. My hesitation in taking it in is the cost of getting it there + the diagnosis will be hundreds of dollars if not more. If we find no indication of a spun bearing or similar via the oil pan inspection, I will have to load it up and take it to a dealer as everyone is baffled at this point.

 

[MsBehave]

Remove the starter and see if the engine will rotate.

Tried that and it did until it didn't - ring gear was somewhat easily rotated with a pry bar until it just locked up completely.

 

[DavesTractor]

Yeah, my dealer has already said they will not rebuild and it will be $26K for a new motor. They diagnosed the issue over the phone. My hesitation in taking it in is the cost of getting it there + the diagnosis will be hundreds of dollars if not more. If we find no indication of a spun bearing or similar via the oil pan inspection, I will have to load it up and take it to a dealer as everyone is baffled at this point.

A complete short block is $5,244 MSRP, plus some freight, plus labor to swap it in. That's with the crank/cam, etc. You will have to swap over the head and all the other items. But that is a far cry from $26k.

If they diagnosed it over the phone, they are only guessing based on the info you provide to them. Yes it will be hundreds of dollars to haul it and do some diagnosis. I suppose you will have to figure out if it is worth it based on the amount of effort you are willing to expend yourself to get this fixed.

 

[MsBehave]

A complete short block is $5,244 MSRP, plus some freight, plus labor to swap it in. That's with the crank/cam, etc. You will have to swap over the head and all the other items. But that is a far cry from $26k.

If they diagnosed it over the phone, they are only guessing based on the info you provide to them. Yes it will be hundreds of dollars to haul it and do some diagnosis. I suppose you will have to figure out if it is worth it based on the amount of effort you are willing to expend yourself to get this fixed.

I am more than willing to expend the money to haul it in for diagnosis if it is just not obvious after we get the oil pan off and/or take a look thru a camera. It just seems so unlikely that the engine seized that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that I am probably about to spend a big chunk of money on a piece of equipment that I expected to run pretty much trouble-free for many years, not many days. I guess you could say I am hard-headed If motor replacement is the solution, it will be done on the farm.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

"I guess you could say I am hard-headed If motor replacement is the solution, it will be done on the farm." Hope you know what you're in for.....any how long it will take...assuming you don't have a complete shop/hydraulic lifts, etc. Oh yeah...and a whole bunch of expensive tools/time. Hope you don't have to replace the engine...but...if the engine would turn at all...it ain't stuck...it sounds like its hydro locked on one cyl. Can you try and pull the injectors (if direct inject) and see if it free's up? BobG in VA

 

[MsBehave]

"I guess you could say I am hard-headed If motor replacement is the solution, it will be done on the farm." Hope you know what you're in for.....any how long it will take...assuming you don't have a complete shop/hydraulic lifts, etc. Oh yeah...and a whole bunch of expensive tools/time. Hope you don't have to replace the engine...but...if the engine would turn at all...it ain't stuck...it sounds like its hydro locked on one cyl. Can you try and pull the injectors (if direct inject) and see if it free's up? BobG in VA

Don't worry - I am not the one doing the work I have tracked down a couple of highly recommended (retired) tractor mechanics that can do the job at a reasonable cost and they bring their own tools. Once we pull the pan or at least get a peep in there and see what's up, we'll decide whether to break it down further. I agree - it sounds very much hydrolocked and I will call in the big guns to pull the injectors - getting to them is not fun on this machine. At some point (about the time the temps get down in the 40's and it starts raining) I'm calling "Uncle" if there is no obvious cause and I will be hauling the thing to either Oak Grove, LA or Longview, TX (the two closest dealers - I am pretty much in the middle between the two).

 

[MsBehave]

She lives!!

Those of y'all following along are bound to be wondering what came of this mess. Well, here's the rest of the story...

Once we got into the tractor (no small feat), we found the #3 rod bearing seized, but just barely. We were able to break it loose by hand. No bent rods, no pile of shavings in the oil pan. An emery cloth was applied where needed and all bearings were replaced. Buttoned her back up, added oil and new filter, and then ran the tractor at idle for about 30 min. Changed oil and filter again, ran at idle and drained it. No metal, no weirdness.

I then turned her over to my mechanic so he could watch and listen while she ran under load. He ran her for a couple of days pulling my war horse JD 709 Brush Cutter. Never missed a lick. I'm about to do the scheduled oil change and let her rip. Final cost was well south of $1k parts and labor. Kudos to my two local mechanics for being so thorough...and convinced she wasn't FUBAR.

Remember, my dealer wanted $28k to fix the problem Probably not so coincidentally, I noticed the new OEM replacement oil filters I ordered for this project are MUCH shorter than the OEM filter that was damaged...due to being overly exposed IMHO. Good on Mahindra for rectifying the problem.

So, all's well that ends well.