5740HST/Relieving pressure off of 3rd function valve

[nebraskasparks]

I was having problems relieving the pressure of the lines that come off the 3rd function valve. Despite turning the key on and moving the switches until I knew there was no pressure I still couldn't hook the male hose from the grapple to the receptacle on the Kubota. I finally played around with the hydraulics enough that after I tilted the grapple all the way back toward the tractor...then shut the engine off, bled off the residual pressure with the controller...then I was able to hook the lines up no problem.
Anyone else have any ideas about this?
Thanks again.

 

[TripleR]

I know absolutely nothing about the third function valve, but anytime I have trouble hooking hydraulic hoses, I relieve the pressure by tapping the ball valve in the QD coupler, messy, but effective; wear eye protection. I may be way off on your problem though, just a thought.

 

[dstig1]

I have had a very similar problem with my new 3rd function valve. I can usually get one connector together, but never get both. I've tried all the usual tricks: cycle the valve while engine is off, tap on the face of the connector, etc. The problem is not in my grapple, it is in the tractor side. I finally came up with a trick to do it - I use a 24" bar clamp (one of those rubber padded quick grips) to put some pressure on the fitting with the connectors in place. Basically I'm squeezing it together with the clamp. Then when I go hit the 3rd function switch, it will either pop together or come close enough that I can work it in. Best I can figure is that for some reason the 3rd function valve does not release pressure the same way as the main loader valves.

Oh yeah - you need to make sure your 3rd function valve is operational. This probably requires the key on (but engine off).

I wish I could figure out another way, but so far I have needed this trick every single time. So I keep a bar clamp handy.

 

[nebraskasparks]

Just got a note from sbakf...had the same issue but found that if he was pushing just a little off center it would go on but no click. That's what I've experienced. I don't know if it's because these new pioneer fittings have an "exact" tolerance and the ball bearings will not seat into the groove unless perfectly aligned or what. Wonder how old your unit is and if this problem goes away with a little age and wear?

 

[dstig1]

Mine is brand new. Installed a couple weeks ago. It doesn't sound quite the same, as I can't even get mine started by hand in many cases. The clamp trick works, but shouldn't be necessary, IMHO.

 

[nebraskasparks]

Mine is brand new. Installed a couple weeks ago. It doesn't sound quite the same, as I can't even get mine started by hand in many cases. The clamp trick works, but shouldn't be necessary, IMHO.

If I can't get the fittings to even begin to fit...it means that I haven't cycled the 3rd function valve switches enough or I haven't relieved all the pressure on the FEL. Once I get them to fit...or think I have and I can't get the bearings to "click" into the groove and lock...is the mystery that I'm working on now. I don't have time for clamps at the moment.. will be calling the shop tomorrow and see what they have to say.

 

[dstig1]

Heh. I don't have time for clamps either, but I don't have time to not use the grapple.... This is what it takes so far. I can trip the valves once, none or 45 times, and it acts the same. Trust me. There may be some magic combination of standing on my head while turning the joystick to polar north while chanting, but I sure haven't found it. Once I get some pressure on it with the clamp, tripping the valve releases the pressure and I can proceed, but nothing works to relieve the pressure until then. And it is the tractor side that is the problem, not the grapple.

 

[nebraskasparks]

Heh. I don't have time for clamps either, but I don't have time to not use the grapple.... This is what it takes so far. I can trip the valves once, none or 45 times, and it acts the same. Trust me. There may be some magic combination of standing on my head while turning the joystick to polar north while chanting, but I sure haven't found it. Once I get some pressure on it with the clamp, tripping the valve releases the pressure and I can proceed, but nothing works to relieve the pressure until then. And it is the tractor side that is the problem, not the grapple.

I feel like I've been standing on my head and at other various angles with those stupid hoses but I haven't tried the joy stick to polar north yet..... but I have chanted some things that need only be chanted while alone on the north 40. Good news is that I've got a contact at Kubota and hopefully we'll have an answer that we like soon.
Pointing at polar north sounds like the best so far. Are you using pioneer fittings by chance?

 

[rjkobbeman]

I remember reading about turning the key on (with the tractor off) and pressing the 3rd function button in order to open the solenoids in hopes of relieving the pressure.

I also read in this thread where that did not work.

Has anyone tried to put the FEL in float position before trying the "key on push buttons" trick? I installed my 3rd function valve myself... and I noticed that it is directly downline (or upline) from the FEL valve.

Seems like with all these valves open the pressue HAS to relieve itself back into the tank.

I know once I start using mine, if I have problems I will install the more expensive "connect/disconnect under pressure" QDs.

 

[nebraskasparks]

I remember reading about turning the key on (with the tractor off) and pressing the 3rd function button in order to open the solenoids in hopes of relieving the pressure.

I also read in this thread where that did not work.

Has anyone tried to put the FEL in float position before trying the "key on push buttons" trick? I installed my 3rd function valve myself... and I noticed that it is directly downline (or upline) from the FEL valve.

Seems like with all these valves open the pressue HAS to relieve itself back into the tank.

I know once I start using mine, if I have problems I will install the more expensive "connect/disconnect under pressure" QDs.

I bought the expensive QD's (Pioneer) and am still having the problem. I called my friend at Kubota and they talked to the service folks in Ohio that said you have to have the engine off, key on, then hold each of the 3rd function switches down for AT LEAST 3 SECONDS. I was cycling them but I wasn't holding each one down for a long period of time. If we all experiment with this we'll see if that holds the relay open long enough to take the pressure off. Hope it works. We'll play with the FEL position also.
(I still like the idea of orienting toward polar north with the joystick:laughing Full moon might help also with the gravitational affect on the fluid

 

[dstig1]

I'll make sure to give that I try, but I think it is one of the combinations I have tried already.

And yes, key on, engine off to have power to the 3rd function diverter in my case.

Let me know how the full moon helps. I'll try anything at this point....

 

[rjkobbeman]

I bought the expensive QD's (Pioneer) and am still having the problem. I called my friend at Kubota and they talked to the service folks in Ohio that said you have to have the engine off, key on, then hold each of the 3rd function switches down for AT LEAST 3 SECONDS. I was cycling them but I wasn't holding each one down for a long period of time. If we all experiment with this we'll see if that holds the relay open long enough to take the pressure off. Hope it works. We'll play with the FEL position also.
(I still like the idea of orienting toward polar north with the joystick:laughing Full moon might help also with the gravitational affect on the fluid

I installed my 3rd function myself and have played with it a bit. I can verify that there is power (assume 12 volts) going down to the valve. Actually, there are two circuits, one for each button. Pushing the buttons with the key on (engine off), you can hear the solenoids operating when you push the buttons. That action is opening up a valve. The pressure HAS to equalize. (I say this not hooking anything up yet!) Knowing how this is installed in series with the FEL valve, I am willing to bet putting the FEL in float position and pressing the buttons (key on, engine off again) WILL equalize up the system.

Most of the problems I hear about are hookup UP the attachment because of pressure built up in the implement. Some have recommended a hose with QDs on it without fluid in it... and connect that to the implement when not in use. The air in the line will absorb temperature changes and pressure variations in the implement.

 

[dstig1]

Float is on lift/lower circuit. I tapped into curl/dump for the grapple diverter. That seemed to be typical, so it was what I did. I doubt float will help, but I can give it a whirl.

I can't explain it, as it will clearly lose pressure when you do this with the grapple on, but somehow there is just enough to stop re-connecting later.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Float is on lift/lower circuit. I tapped into curl/dump for the grapple diverter. That seemed to be typical, so it was what I did. I doubt float will help, but I can give it a whirl.

I can't explain it, as it will clearly lose pressure when you do this with the grapple on, but somehow there is just enough to stop re-connecting later.

You're having problems DISCONNECTING or CONNECTING?

If the problem is with CONNECTING, I would say there is pressure in the implement. You are problably trying to relieve pressure in the wrong system.

 

[dstig1]

Problems connecting, and there is NO pressure in the implement. I've been through this a number of times and have no problem on the implement side. The unrelieved pressure is on the tractor side. Trust me. I have fully relieved pressure on the implement with no effect. Yes, I know the implement is usually the problem as it gets warm and the fluid expands in a closed system, but that is NOT what is going on here.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Problems connecting, and there is NO pressure in the implement. I've been through this a number of times and have no problem on the implement side. The unrelieved pressure is on the tractor side. Trust me. I have fully relieved pressure on the implement with no effect. Yes, I know the implement is usually the problem as it gets warm and the fluid expands in a closed system, but that is NOT what is going on here.

Hmmm, well... back to tractor off and key on I guess. I would go back to playing with the FEL while the buttons are being pressed.

Basically, tractor off, key on, ONE button pushed (keep it pressed) then move the FEL joystick in all directions slowly. Then do the same with the other button (press it -- keeping it pressed then move the joystick in all directions slowly). Basically, you are trying to prevent pressure in one circuit from backing up into another. If you open up all circuits at the same time, pressure should make its way back to the tank and relieve itself. The FEL and bucket should not move if all of the pressure is relived from it. If the boom is up (bucket off of the ground) or the curl/dump is no relieved, this step is pointless.

These valves (3rd function and FEL) are connected together. I'm sure one can affect the other. I will take a look at my valve and documentation tonight and re-think this through.

 

[dstig1]

Mine is not integrated from the factory, it is an add-on diverter valve. I push the button and the curl/dump motion now acts as grapple open/close while holding the button. Release button and back to curl/dump. I'll play with it a bit more this weekend, but I have tried a bunch of things already with no success.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Mine is not integrated from the factory, it is an add-on diverter valve. I push the button and the curl/dump motion now acts as grapple open/close while holding the button. Release button and back to curl/dump. I'll play with it a bit more this weekend, but I have tried a bunch of things already with no success.

Ahhhh, and the plot thickens.

I would say at a minimum, you will have to move the dump/curl while at the same time holding the button down to relieve the pressure. (Of course, key on, tractor off.)

 

[dstig1]

Umm yeeeeaaaah.... I'm well past that point here... I've been doing all those things, and more since day 1 when it wouldn't go back together...

About the only thing I haven't done is try oddball positions with the loader, but then I am releasing all pressure on all lines (in theory) so I can't even really try different positions, as it will just collapse when I pull pressure off. It seems like the diverter needs some pressure pushing on it to let the fluid move, and by compressing the fitting with the clamp, it pops in when you hit the valve.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Umm yeeeeaaaah.... I'm well past that point here... I've been doing all those things, and more since day 1 when it wouldn't go back together...

About the only thing I haven't done is try oddball positions with the loader, but then I am releasing all pressure on all lines (in theory) so I can't even really try different positions, as it will just collapse when I pull pressure off. It seems like the diverter needs some pressure pushing on it to let the fluid move, and by compressing the fitting with the clamp, it pops in when you hit the valve.

You said your 3rd function valve was not factory. Is it Kubota at all? I wonder if your button(s) are actually opening up your valve with the tractor off. Something is obviously not opening and holding pressure.