5th gen Dodges, when are they coming out?
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ning
Elite Member
I'm no Dodge/Ram fan boy (sticking to my '97 Ford PSD, ordered new, for the foreseeable future), but I can say that Ram dropping the Cummins name - even if they use effectively the same engine made by an associated FICA/Iveco/Whatever company, would be a terrible marketing move - they're heavily invested in the name, and just about anything can be forgiven because... "I just love that Cummins". Change the brand of the motor and the slightest thing goes wrong will be pinned on mismanagement dropping the Cummins, etc.
Note that Ford never trumpeted the International/Navistar engine connection; when their diesels started taking off, they had the "PowerStroke" brand, and GM similarly didn't make a big deal out of the Detroit Diesel connection, so when they came out with their Duramax brand, there wasn't a brand shift.
Also, in GM's case, they went from an anemic engine (215/440) to a much more powerful one (300/520) - what's not to like? If Ram drops the Cummins at this point, it's going to be a lateral move - don't quote me on this in 5 years haha but is there really that much more to be found in engines that'll fit in a 1ton that FICA is going to suddenly switch from that Cummins to a new game-changer?
I doubt it, and I'll bet they lose market share if they try.
Note that Ford never trumpeted the International/Navistar engine connection; when their diesels started taking off, they had the "PowerStroke" brand, and GM similarly didn't make a big deal out of the Detroit Diesel connection, so when they came out with their Duramax brand, there wasn't a brand shift.
Also, in GM's case, they went from an anemic engine (215/440) to a much more powerful one (300/520) - what's not to like? If Ram drops the Cummins at this point, it's going to be a lateral move - don't quote me on this in 5 years haha but is there really that much more to be found in engines that'll fit in a 1ton that FICA is going to suddenly switch from that Cummins to a new game-changer?
I doubt it, and I'll bet they lose market share if they try.
I owned a 95 Ram 2500 with a Cummins. At the time I thought it was a powerhouse. I sold it to a friend of mine after I had it a year and he still has it today with 300k +/- on it. After driving the new diesels, those old ones are incredibly underpowered. I had a few 7.3 PS and those as well are miles behind the new ones. I have not got driven a new Dodge diesel but have to assume they pull just as well as the Ford or GM offerings.
Diamondpilot
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The Duramax is nothing more than a Isuzu motor.
ning
Elite Member
GM switching to an Isuzu motor somehow considerably increased their sales in that segment - not only was a better engine, but GM hadn't pushed their previous brand (I doubt many people understood it was originally a DD engine that was replaced by a *gasp* "Japanese engine!").
Is the FICA replacement engine going to be better - as in, so much better - than the Cummins, that people will overlook the loss of their pride & joy engine? It'll be marginally better (hp/torque figures), but it's not going to be "A 'Murkin Engine" and there won't be a big fat C to go with it.
Oh, sorry. I thought you were arguing with me, but I guess you were actually trying to help the point along.
Renze
Elite Member
All i know is that Cummins did not want to sell their 6.7 at more than 225hp when used in a wheel loader: a machine with the highest demands on transient response of an engine, because a loader is shuttling F/R all day long. I tried the FPT 6.7 in a Case loader at 250hp and it went like a rocket: instant boost, with just a waste gated turbo, no VNT at all.
With all you guys complaining about DPFs , i am not so sure that the FPT SCR technology couldnt give this improvement over the Cummins... in powerboats 500hp at 3000rpm, remember... ?
With all you guys complaining about DPFs , i am not so sure that the FPT SCR technology couldnt give this improvement over the Cummins... in powerboats 500hp at 3000rpm, remember... ?
Monster5601
Platinum Member
In marine use engineers have nearly unlimited resource to dump engine heat, there is only so much room under the hood of a pickup.
whitexc
Bronze Member
I love my '02 24V but I have to agree with an above statement.....the older motors, in stock form and even mild mods such as mine, were very much underpowered compared to new iron. They are also very loud between injectors, pumps, valvetrain and exhaust with the new ones almost sounding electric(think Tim Horton's drive thru)! I won't be selling mine any time soon (210K and all the bugs worked out - let's hope lol) but I would like a newer version just for the better ride, steering, quiet operation and let's face it...they have insane power available. I'm not even sure I would buy another Dodge. I think if I was shopping I would drive them all and see what felt best, just like we all do with tractors.
Renze
Elite Member
Thats correct, however no big of a deal when comparing SCR technology to EGR+DPF technology. A John Deere TIER 4 interim engine, with 30% of its exhaust gas cooled and then rerouted into the intake, needs a 50% higher cooler capacity than a Cummins 5.9 TIER 2 engine without cooled EGR. Cooled EGR is putting a huge burden on the cooling system, which the FPT engine can do without.... Whichever angle of approach you take, SCR only engines have advantages over EGR/DPF based emission technology in every aspect. Longer oil change intervals, simpler, more compact engine breathing, simpler, more compact cooling package, no clogging up of VGT mechanisms, EGR valves, coolers etcetera.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Isn't this similar to what happened with Ford and their power-stroke diesel engines back in the 90's? At that time, they had a very good engine, but then due to some issues with Cummins, they went out and created a new engine that was horrible. It's taken them almost two decades to come back and offer a quality diesel engine.
Case Construction equipment used to have Cummins engines. My dozer has the Cummins 6CT 830 engine that only Case can sell parts to. If you go to a parts store like Napa, they ask for the serial number and then tell me that they can't find any parts for it. Fortunately, Case is cheaper then Napa for parts. I thought that the Cummins engine was a good reason to go with Case. But once again, issues with Cummins led Case Construction to go with Isuzu engines instead of Cummins.
I'm not sure what's the deal with Cummins, but hey seem to be losing a lot of business selling engines.
If I was looking for a new diesel engine truck, I don't think the Cummins name on the engine would make a difference for me, it would be all about history and what others have experienced with them.
I think Cummins gained a huge boost in name recognition by Dodge, and later Ram in their advertising and promoting it as the best of the best engines. It's all marketing.
Case Construction equipment used to have Cummins engines. My dozer has the Cummins 6CT 830 engine that only Case can sell parts to. If you go to a parts store like Napa, they ask for the serial number and then tell me that they can't find any parts for it. Fortunately, Case is cheaper then Napa for parts. I thought that the Cummins engine was a good reason to go with Case. But once again, issues with Cummins led Case Construction to go with Isuzu engines instead of Cummins.
I'm not sure what's the deal with Cummins, but hey seem to be losing a lot of business selling engines.
If I was looking for a new diesel engine truck, I don't think the Cummins name on the engine would make a difference for me, it would be all about history and what others have experienced with them.
I think Cummins gained a huge boost in name recognition by Dodge, and later Ram in their advertising and promoting it as the best of the best engines. It's all marketing.
