6' Tandem Drag Disc and tractor hp?

[foggy1111]

Your tractor wouldn't even feel it! I pulled this with a 35hp deere 4wd and it was a piece of cake. Full bite angle and 5mph all day long.

Now, that just sounds a bit strange to hear you say that. I'm not sure what a "full bite" is for depth on that disc. My 3 point disc is a pretty heavy box frame 5 1/2' King Kutter brand....and I can set the front and rear gangs pretty aggressively. It has 16 notched pans, 18" diameter and I can bury the disc to the hubs if I put some weight on it....and.....IF I can keep it going I can turn some dirt....to about 7" deep. The problem is .....I operate in some sandy loam soils......and the tractor will spin out after the dirt loosens up a bit....and sometimes even when it aint too loose.

I don't care how you spell it....but cutting through and turning over a swatch of land 5.5' wide by 7" deep is going to take some power....and traction. Now, if your talking about setting the disc to turn about 3" or soil.....after plowing for example....that's a totally different story than primary tillage....at least in my book. How deep are you thinking you'd like to pull that disc?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Now, that just sounds a bit strange to hear you say that. I'm not sure what a "full bite" is for depth on that disc. My 3 point disc is a pretty heavy box frame 5 1/2' King Kutter brand....and I can set the front and rear gangs pretty aggressively. It has 16 notched pans, 18" diameter and I can bury the disc to the hubs if I put some weight on it....and.....IF I can keep it going I can turn some dirt....to about 7" deep. The problem is .....I operate in some sandy loam soils......and the tractor will spin out after the dirt loosens up a bit....and sometimes even when it aint too loose.

I don't care how you spell it....but cutting through and turning over a swatch of land 5.5' wide by 7" deep is going to take some power....and traction. Now, if your talking about setting the disc to turn about 3" or soil.....after plowing for example....that's a totally different story than primary tillage....at least in my book. How deep are you thinking you'd like to pull that disc?

More or less just what I've been saying. A disc is a disc is a disc. The ONLY way one will pull easier than another is if it's doing less work. Not all 3-point disc's are heavy enough to bury the blades to the axles. Same applies with older pull types, even wheel disc's (transport types) But when compared at equal depth/width of operation, you won't find ANY type with a definative advantage when it comes to rating how hard one would be to pull.

If they pull easy, look at WHY. May be as simple as worn out blades, may be improper set-up, may be excessive (or inadaquate) ground speed, or may be hard, dry ground. Possibly a combination of ALL those reasons.... But if 2 different styles of disc's are BOTH cutting the same width, and BOTH are cutting the same depth, and BOTH are set to the same blade angles, and BOTH are being pulled at the same ground speed, their "pull" (drawbar load) will be VERY close to the same.

As I mentioned in a previous post, disc blades wear, and when they do, they loose "dish" as they lose diameter. (total depth of offset in the dish) That'll make one SEEM to be pulling easier, but you pay a price. (Less soil movement and less depth of operation....)

Long story short, the disc shown in the original post, with blades in the apparent condition they're in, wouldn't make for an excessive load on a 25hp tractor PROVIDED it has enough traction. Condition of tires, and weight of tractor and soil conditions will greatly effect ability to provide adaquate traction.

 

[souliog]

1. I completely agree with farmwithjunk and the physics of a disc. It's probally a simple formula of depth, # of disc's, dia. of discs, etc. I can't see the difference between 3pt or drag.

2. Soil is very loose sandy loam. Last soil sample was at 1.4% organic matter. The terrain is rolling with some up hills and zero wheel slip.

3. At first we had too much weight on it and it dug all the way up to the hubs. It still pulled it easily. After adjustment it was honestly digging 6" min.

4. The tractor was a newer JD 35hp hydro, 4x4, loader, loaded Industrial tires. Maybe a model 4410 if I remember. It was a rental.

 

[foggy1111]

When setting up my disc originally.....after trying the heavy weighted and most aggressive setting and seeing that I could penetrate the ground to the hubs.....and watching the tractor spin under the worst conditions.....I made some changes. I took the weight (I had a big log on it) off the disc and reduced the front gangs by one setting....and the back gangs by two settings.

The disc thus set up seems to penetrate 5" or so and I can do a very nice job of pulling it and getting the max work accomplished. I think with these little tractors it's a balancing act.

 

[wolc123]

I only use a disc on ground that has been plowed first. It is generally true that if a disc pulls hard, it is doing more work on the soil but that is not neccessarily a good thing. I just look to get the ground ready for planting with a minimum number of passes and I find that an old pull-type (with disc wheels having very little wear) does this better than several 3-pts I have used, and it takes significantly less power to pull. There may be some advantage to working high spots deeper with a 3-pt but I dont see what it is. My pull-type may not work all that deep but it works everything to a unifom depth thanks to all (4) sections having almost unrestricted freedom to follow the contour of the ground. My corn yields are as good or better than they ever were when using a 3-pt, since switching to a pull-type this season. My fuel consumption for discing was also down considerably since less passes were required, each taking less power and covering a wider width (7.5 ft pull-type vs 6.5 ft 3-pt). Better fuel economy and crop yields are difficult to ignore these days. I also like the fact that just one pin is involved in hookup, and I can use some of my old pre-3pt tractors for power. My JD pull-disc can also be completely controlled from the tractor seat with a rope to steepen the angle, or straighten out for transport. Probably the sweetest part of all is the fact that it was virtually free, because I sold the (2) 3-section drags the old farmer threw in with the disc for a tidy profit after fixing them up a bit. I am glad to hear that a few other folks are having good success with pull-type discs. I am very sorry I listened to the nay-sayers so long and stuck with a 3-pt for so many years. Anyone interested in a "nice" 6.5 ft, 1951 Dearborn 3-pt disc? Pull-types are not for everyone, especially if you need to transport over the road or work real small areas. Luckily I dont have any pavement or tiny gardens on my farm.

 

[Tritonman]

Why short yourself on horsepower?

I have a 6.5 foot three point buhler disc and I used it with my old 855 John deere and it was not enough tractor at all (roughly 25 hp). I currently have a deere 4400 (39HP or so) which is alot better-just barely enough. So keep your search in the 35-50 hp range and you will be alot happier.

 

[foggy1111]

Why short yourself on horsepower?

I have a 6.5 foot three point buhler disc and I used it with my old 855 John deere and it was not enough tractor at all (roughly 25 hp). I currently have a deere 4400 (39HP or so) which is alot better-just barely enough. So keep your search in the 35-50 hp range and you will be alot happier.

The OP also wants to be able to trailer the tractor.....therefore the "smallest tractor" with the ability to pull the disc question was asked.

 

[MMagis]

I only use a disc on ground that has been plowed first. It is generally true that if a disc pulls hard, it is doing more work on the soil but that is not neccessarily a good thing. I just look to get the ground ready for planting with a minimum number of passes and I find that an old pull-type (with disc wheels having very little wear) does this better than several 3-pts I have used, and it takes significantly less power to pull. There may be some advantage to working high spots deeper with a 3-pt but I dont see what it is. My pull-type may not work all that deep but it works everything to a unifom depth thanks to all (4) sections having almost unrestricted freedom to follow the contour of the ground. My corn yields are as good or better than they ever were when using a 3-pt, since switching to a pull-type this season. My fuel consumption for discing was also down considerably since less passes were required, each taking less power and covering a wider width (7.5 ft pull-type vs 6.5 ft 3-pt). Better fuel economy and crop yields are difficult to ignore these days. I also like the fact that just one pin is involved in hookup, and I can use some of my old pre-3pt tractors for power. My JD pull-disc can also be completely controlled from the tractor seat with a rope to steepen the angle, or straighten out for transport. Probably the sweetest part of all is the fact that it was virtually free, because I sold the (2) 3-section drags the old farmer threw in with the disc for a tidy profit after fixing them up a bit. I am glad to hear that a few other folks are having good success with pull-type discs. I am very sorry I listened to the nay-sayers so long and stuck with a 3-pt for so many years. Anyone interested in a "nice" 6.5 ft, 1951 Dearborn 3-pt disc? Pull-types are not for everyone, especially if you need to transport over the road or work real small areas. Luckily I dont have any pavement or tiny gardens on my farm.

You just aren't getting what FWJ is saying, and he is absolutely correct. How easy a disk is to pull has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's a pull type, 3 pt, or transport disk. If your drag disk is using less fuel than a 3 pt it's because it's doing less work. There's no two ways about it. Physics 101.

 

[Carykong]

Souliog is looking for minimum HP to pull his disc ,easy trailering,and these are food plots for wildlife. Factoring in those three needs, 18-20 HP is plenty. Ag tires would help greatly.

I have a 15 HP Case VAC tricylcle (1952). Pulls a 7' tandom 3pt disc fine in first gear.

 

[foggy1111]

Souliog is looking for minimum HP to pull his disc ,easy trailering,and these are food plots for wildlife. Factoring in those three needs, 18-20 HP is plenty. Ag tires would help greatly.

I have a 15 HP Case VAC tricylcle (1952). Pulls a 7' tandom 3pt disc fine in first gear.

I thought we just skinned this cat. Geesh....will it never end?