600' water line suggestions

[LD1]

I am thinking he might be able to get by with 1-1/2" But I have still yet to find a good chart, or something simple and easy to follow.

But then again, the problem is complex, because pressure drop due to friction is all dependent on flow. Which is ever changing. I have no idea what is a normal target for a ~1800sf house with two adults and no kids. (but maybe occasionally grand kids staying)

Should I be looking at ~20gpm flow? 10? 30? Just have no clue. Plumbing is not my specialty.

Then to compound matters......Black PE pipe can be had it CTS (coppet tube size), IPS (iron pipe size), both of which have a SDR number assigned. or you can get pipe listed as SIDR.....I understand 100% what all that means.

CTS is "outside diameter controlled. Meaning as the diameter ratio decreases.....and pipe pressure ratings go up (thicker walled pipe).....they are gaining that by making the ID smaller and leaving the outside diameter constant.

IPS also seems to be outside diameter controlled

Then there is SIDR.....which is inside diameter controlled. Where a given pipe size is the same inside diameter (and flow rate) regardless of wall thickness/pressure rating.

Why does all of that matter.........well there seems to be a BIG difference between CTS and IPS or SIDR pipe just in terms of size.

Here is what local utility website says:

Del-Co recommends that you use the following service line material for most residential installations:

1-inch Iron Pipe Size (IPS) polyethylene (PE) pipe, SDR 7
It has been our experience that using a smaller diameter service line may result in lower than desired water pressure if the customer is using several water devices at the same time.

Houses that are set back more than 500 feet from the water main should consider using a larger service line. Two options that Del-Co recommends are:

1 1/2-inch Copper Tube Size (CTS) polyethylene (PE) pipes, or
2-inch SDR 21 PVC

Well, 1" SDR7 pipe is 0.939" ID
TO go over 500' they recommend
1-1/2 CTS PE...........ID is only 1.263
The SDR21 PVC is OVER 2" ID

Seems the CTS PVC in 1-1/2" and 2" PVC arent even comparable????

So given.......
1" SDR7...............................0.939 ID.............(water company preferred for under 500')
1-1/2" CTS PE.......................1.263 ID.............(water company preferred for over 500')
1-1/2 SIDR 7 ........................1.610" ID
2" CTS PE..............................1.653" ID
2" SIDR 7 pe..........................2.067" ID
2" PVC SDR21........................2.149" ID.............(water company second suggestion for over 500')

Given pipe sizes......and when doing numbers online to determine pipe sizing......and "they" tell you you need 2" pipe......Just what are they talking about? Are they talking about SIDR? or CTS.......Because 2" CTS pipe seems just about the same as the 1-1/2" SIDR pipe in terms of inside diameter.

And given that the house is ~550' off the road to be more precise......and given the meter is gonna be 30-40' off the road.......the run of pipe from meter to house is probably gonna be closer to 500' than 600'?

And whats more......I can source the 1-1/2" SIDR 7 pipe in a 600' roll:thumbsup:

Why do we have to make water line sizing so dang confusing?
When someone just says "you need a 1" line".......or like some of the posters here that say something like......I am xxx ft off the road and ran xx size pipe......are we talking CTS or IPS or SIDR or what? Cause it clearly makes a big difference

 

[LouNY]

It can be confusing alright, but like you have figured out the ID is the major issue. As far as what flow rate to calculate with
I would definitely err on the high side as going low will be an aggravation for as long as its in existence.
For what it's worth I would not consider a main line without placing a frost free hydrant close off the main line, it has so many uses from
routine outside use to an emergency water feed if the house main valve has to be closed for any reason, freeze, flood, fire, storm or anything.
That would also alleviate your need for a 600' continuous coil.
An outside hydrant will easily have a 10-15 gpm flow capability and then at least 5 gpm for the house would make 20 gpm a minimal sizing.
Have fun

 

[Deere Dude]

The water utilities jurisdiction ends at the meter which is as far as they maintain the water integrity so I cant see them having any right to inspect your supply line. I cant see using a 2" line unless their supply pressure is really low like below 60 PSI. My supply pressure varies from 110-125 PSI (I have checked it many times). My neighbor ran 300+ feet of 1" line to his house and he can run his house plus a 11 head sprinkler system at the same time and have plenty of pressure.

I totally agree. I have 120# at the road and 1200' of 1" pvc. I reduced it at the house to 60# and works quite well. If I would need to fill horse troughs in a minute or needed to run a house sprinkler system maybe 2" would be the ticket. Although at the 600' mark I do have a hydrant for the barn and if I open it fully water won't rip through it like it would at 2" at 120 psi.

I haven't heard what the OPs water pressure at the meter is yet, but unless it is under 60 at the road I would run 1" 160# black tubing.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Pipe in 250 and 500 ft length is common, 1000 ft can be ordered usually but keep in mind trying to handle it. 500 ft of 1 1/2 inch is a lot to handle by hand.

I have 3/4 meter and used 1 1/2 for about 650 ft and no longer have noticeable water pressure difference when a couple of faucets are open like we used to on 1 inch.

As several have pointed out the numbers to watch are flow rates and pressure while in use. Larger line makes a huge difference on longer runs.

Now then, what the price difference between 2 inch recommended by the utility company versus trying to use something smaller? Is it really worth it ? Same ditch digging cost, same labor cost to install, etc.

Feature pressure drops in your area due to development or equipment changes or equipment wearing out needs to be taken into account. That’s something we had to deal with. When we complained about pressure being less than it was in the past we were told the water utility still met minimum codes and was fine. Also the homeowner could need increased water for some unplanned and unexpected reason later on.

There is nothing like saving a few dollars then being reminded each and every day for years of the few bucks saved when turning on the water and thinking of what it should have been

 

[WM75Guy]

If I remember correctly from the fire academy a long time ago when you double the diameter of a pipe you increase the GPM flow X 4. So going from 1" to 2" gives you 4X the flow in GPM with the same pressure. Will make a big difference. The meter size will also restrict flow.

It is the external usages such as sprinkler systems or multiple appliances at one time that cause issues with a 1" supply line. Think of being in the shower and someone flushes the toilet. Most residential appliances now such as shower heads are low flow at 3 GPM so that helps.

 

[kenacp]

660' to my place. 1" meter at the road, ran 2" pvc the whole way, Teed off with 2 valves,then stepped down to 1". One goes to the house, the other for all outside use. No problems for the last ten years and all the flow I'll ever need.

 

[RalphVa]

Don't know why the water company recommends 2". That's huge for a house. Our well supply line is 1" poly. Actually, 3/4" would be enough for the usual approximately 1-2 gpm house usage (and well pump rate). Think 3/4" is even big enough for up to 5 gpm without any significant pressure drop.

Raph

 

[LD1]

Don't know why the water company recommends 2". That's huge for a house. Our well supply line is 1" poly. Actually, 3/4" would be enough for the usual approximately 1-2 gpm house usage (and well pump rate). Think 3/4" is even big enough for up to 5 gpm without any significant pressure drop.

Raph

I think they go overboard on anticipated usage too, but understandable. They don't want complaints.

While under normal average circumstances 1-2 gpm may be plenty.....

Imagine the wife has a load of laundry going, a load of dishes going, wife is in the shower, I'm outside watering the garden, and one of the kids flushes a toilet.

I can easily see how the demand....on ocassion, can call.for alot of gpm. And pipe too small....that means big pressure loss.

 

[gary49]

One can also add a pressure tank at the house with a check valve ahead of it to deal with pressure drop due to toilet flushing and such.

 

[mljenkins]

A friend is getting ready to break ground for a new house build. Will be about 550' off the road.

Water company recommends 2" water line.

Black PE pipe is most common water line in our area, and probably the most affordable too.

The issue he is having is that in 2" size, the longest roll he can find is 500'. Sure, it can be made out of two pieces, either socket welded together, or a variety of other "approved" connections.....but I am of the opinion, as is he, that nothing will be as good as a continuous run of pipe. He has searched. I havent had much time to do any looking or googling.

So does anyone know of a source of 2" water pipe in 600' rolls? or other suggestions as a better alternative?

Late on this thread but we did this 2 years ago. 700’ run, 3/4” outlet on meter (water company won’t give any larger for residential), 1.5” CTS pipe. They recommended 2” but my calculations showed 1.5” would be bare minimum and the cost jump was insane. The 1.5” fittings are expensive enough. Ran up to house and barn dropped to 1” going to barn and down to 3/4” at house (hate this but we had a modular set and that was the connection). Absolutely no issue with pressure about 65psi at meter and house.

Pipe run is uphill probably at least 100’ elevation change. Our home is in a valley and the water tower, probably 7 miles away, is much higher than the valley, so we have good pressure. No issues with flow for us. Only issue I have seen is with the crappy plumbing in the house, if you flush a toilet and have the washer running and are taking a shower you can notice the drop. That’s because of the 3/4” main and 1/2” pipe to bathrooms. Barn had never had an issue with flow, I have 4 hydrants at the barn and one in the yard and have run sprinklers off 2 of them at a time with no issues.

We had a 500’ piece and a 300’ piece and had a little less than 25’ left over when done (I should have mentioned 700’ was to the split to the barn and then another 75’ to the house).

Matt