6500 problem

[bludev]

All,

Thanks in advance for any help:

My 6500 (30hrs) has started randomly missing at higher RPM (most of the time somewhere over 1500 rpm). When it does miss, it has no power and will blow a small amount of blue/gray smoke. This seems to be more prevalent when the tractor is under load and seems to be getting worse.

So far I have:
1) drained the fuel filters to get any water out (drained enough that the fuel system had to be primed)... no help
2) Checked the fuel filters and they seemed to be ok (they should be with only 30 hours?)
3) I then suspected a fuel problem and wanted to drain the fuel from the tank, so I disconnected the "tank to filter" fuel line at the fuel filter and noticed that there was only a slow drip "bleeding" from the line ... shouldn't the fuel have ran out faster than that ?) I then disconnected the fuel line at the tank (removed the fuel cock etc., and still only witnessed a drip from where the fitting goes into the tank ... again is this correct? (I was expecting a steady stream of fuel to run). Anyway, I was never able to get all the fuel out of the tank, so I'm not sure about fuel quality at this point.

So if anyone has any hints or advice, please let me know. (I would really like to make sure that the fuel is ok before I call the dealer and pay him to take the tractor in)

Thanks,
Bludev

 

[VistanTN]

Did you have the fuel cap on or off? Not sure how much air the cap breather lets in, but I still (like you would expect a pretty solid stream from the line to the fuel filter. My guess is that you have something (piece of leaf, or ???) in the tank laying over the outlet. I don't think you have a "fuel" problem -- more likely a "foreign object" problem.

 

[DavesTractor]

Did you have the fuel cap on or off? Not sure how much air the cap breather lets in, but I still (like you would expect a pretty solid stream from the line to the fuel filter. My guess is that you have something (piece of leaf, or ???) in the tank laying over the outlet. I don't think you have a "fuel" problem -- more likely a "foreign object" problem.

I agree, some crud is in the tank line or over the outlet in the tank. Take the cap off, blow back into the tank, then see if you have a good stream. That will temporarily clean a clog.

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Bludev,
As Dave said blow back on the line and check the flow, if that doesn't help, check and make sure the vent in the fuel cap is not plugged. If blowing back helps, drain down your tank and look in with a flashlight and if you can see what is plugging the outlet try to fish it out. If you can't fish it out you may have to remove the tank and flush it out. Let us know what you find.

 

[bludev]

thanks for the input guys ... I will try the remedies soon and let you know what I find. Incidentley, when I noticed the fuel wasn't flowing, I removed the tank cap ... needless to say, it seemed to make no difference,

Roger

 

[bludev]

I found the problem. As I suspected (and some of you suggested) the fuel wasn't flowing from the tank with enough volume. This was caused by the small fuel filter inside the tank (I didn't know there was one there) being extremely dirty. I removed and cleaned the filter and now all is well.

Thanks for all the input,
Roger

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

I know the problem of access to the fuel tank drain and IN-TANK FILTER (PLASTIC MESH) all too well. Either I get all dirty fuel, or that little filter in the tank is TOO restrictive and catches eveything. I only get 2 to 3 tanks full between changing he in-tank filter.
Tomorrow, I am trying to plug the tank with a wine cork to slow down the diesel pouring out on me.

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

Searching for where to order this filter. I need to buy a few of them and keep on hand.

 

[Mike in La.]

I've had some of the same issues. Where is the filter in the tank and how do you get at it to replace it?

 

[murphy1244]

Sounds like a petcock filter like they use in motorcycles.or screen

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

I have not learned how to change the in-tank mesh filter without losing most/all of the diesel from the tank.

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

Sitting here in my easy chair with the new paper fuel filter 0010081778R93 trying to put it in the freshly cleaned aluminum housing. Online because I didn't pay attention when I took out the dirty filter. Which end is up? This filter has open paper on one end like the end of a roll of toilet paper. The other end has a metal cap. I think the metal cap goes up? But, I'm not reinstalling and cranking Big Red before I'm sure.

 

[civesnedfield]

You are correct the metal top goes up.

 

[civesnedfield]

I have not learned how to change the in-tank mesh filter without losing most/all of the diesel from the tank.

I had an issue with the in tank filter a couple of years ago. I used compressed air at the first filter after the fuel tank. Cleared it right out. I think it may have blown the screen out too. Well I haven't had an issue with the screen since. Personally I think the screen is overkill any way. Nothing should be getting by the two inline filters any way.

Like I said haven't had an issue with it since.

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

My attempts at replacing the filter with the part number 001081778R93 was unsuccessful. The filter had a felt grommet on the open end that seemed to be the amount of distance I was prevented from pushing the filter up into the housing.
Slept on it. Put on my reading glasses, got in good light and viewed into that can. There was what possibly was the lower felt grommet from the old filter corroded and stuck in there. After careful extraction the old grommet came out and this WAS the distance needed to seat the new filter into the housing. AH! Big Red running again.
BUT, it only ran for about 20 minutes before missing and belching the gray smoke again. Another fuel clog?
I have replaced the in-tank screen filter and the primary can filter. Next, is the secondary can filter? This would be no big deal, just a repeat of the primary filter, BUT there is a tagged wire attached to the bolt on top of the filter. This must be to indicate when this filter bolt is ever removed. Well, I have to remove it to change the filter. The warranty is over anyway, so I see no harm.
Here I go again.

 

[DavesTractor]

My attempts at replacing the filter with the part number 001081778R93 was unsuccessful. The filter had a felt grommet on the open end that seemed to be the amount of distance I was prevented from pushing the filter up into the housing.
Slept on it. Put on my reading glasses, got in good light and viewed into that can. There was what possibly was the lower felt grommet from the old filter corroded and stuck in there. After careful extraction the old grommet came out and this WAS the distance needed to seat the new filter into the housing. AH! Big Red running again.
BUT, it only ran for about 20 minutes before missing and belching the gray smoke again. Another fuel clog?
I have replaced the in-tank screen filter and the primary can filter. Next, is the secondary can filter? This would be no big deal, just a repeat of the primary filter, BUT there is a tagged wire attached to the bolt on top of the filter. This must be to indicate when this filter bolt is ever removed. Well, I have to remove it to change the filter. The warranty is over anyway, so I see no harm.
Here I go again.

We see stuff get clogged in the banjo bolt openings sometimes. They act like hidden filters, although not by design. Fuel should flow freely from the tank and through the lines. If not, blowing back through the lines with low pressure compressed air (as mentioned already by someone) will identify if that is the problem. Generally that clears up the problem for a while until the crud in the tank clogs up a fitting or a filter again. Pulling the tank is a chore, so try to avoid that if possible. But if looking into the tank with a flashlight shows a bunch of crud, then you should pull the tank.

 

[EMB5530]

Does this tractor change the timing for the first 10 min of run time if so then shut off after problem starts then restart and see if the issue goes away if it does then maybe it is a timing issue.

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

EMB,
I wish I knew how to answer. I know when the sputtering disables it, I have to either let it sit for hours, or open the fuel system, reprime it and start it up after the pump gets enough fuel back into the engine. Then, it all starts over, runs for 10 minutes under a load and sputters again.

 

[cowsmowmygrass]

This thread is closely related...
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...46-little-smokin-stu-stu-stu.html#post2896784

 

[Harry in Ky]

My experiences with Mahindra tractors has shown that this particular symptom can be caused by at least two separate problems. One is fuel blockage/starvation due to restriction somewhere. Another is the pump timing issue. My observations of each show the smoke puffs with timing problems will be more blue/gray in color while fuel supply problems cause the color to be closer to white. Timing issues usually occur within the first 150 hrs of operation, you must be well beyond that. With the timing problem, the condition most often comes on after the cold start timer goes off(about twenty minutes), and can continue until the engine is switched off and restarted. It will often return after another twenty minutes or so. The blockage problem can occur at any time, so stopping and restarting the engine will have little or no effect. I suspect your problem is supply related, and would suggest you place a pan below the fuel filter assembly and remove the banjo bolt from the outlet fitting( the line leading up to the injection pump) and observe the flow for a minute or so. Since the filter base is mounted low, the fuel will gravity feed at a good rate. It should continue at this rate until the tank empties, and not quickly reduce to a trickle. This may give an indication of where to go next.