8n will fire but not start??

[parispete]

I spent all day taking my 48 8n apart to put in new points, condenser, coil, wires,plugs, and a solenoid for the starter. I shocked the wowwy out of myself when I took a plug out to check for a spark. It acts like it wants to catch and start but that is it. I have tried it with the chock and with out chocking and no go. the carburetor is leaking where the choke comes into the side. All seems good and I need some advise. I do have to get a starter when this goes out, but as long as it will crank the tractor it stays. I worked on cars in my youth and them cars were close to what the tractor has as far as motors.

Any advise? I have checked and the carburetor is getting fuel at where the fuel line comes into the carburetor. If I need a new carburetor is it better to get a carb kit or just get a used carburetor? The thing is that I need this tractor up and running by spring and the weather here is in the high 40's so spring may come early at this rate.

Anyone know how I get to the 8n section on the site? Is it a site where everything is all mixed in?

Thanks

 

[PHIL850]

My first question is, was it running before all this happened. If so, I would recheck the placement of your spark plug wires. Sounds like they are firing, however, they maybe firing on the wrong cyl do to misplacement.

 

[94BULLITT]

Are you sure you have the plug wires on correct? If yes then pull the hose of the carb and spray some starting fluid or gum cutter in it and see if it will start.

 

[crackerjack222]

Yep, I had me one of them 8N's years ago. I spent more time working on it than with it.....
If it hasn't run in a while, I would either replace the plugs or at least clean them. It also sounds like you are getting way too much gas. Those Marvel carbs are dirt simple. I would put a kit in it or at least clean it and make sure the float valve is working.
In short, clean the plugs, make sure the carb is clean and float valve working.

Edit: just read your post again and see you have replaced the plugs. Did you gap them?
Now go after the carb.

 

[parispete]

When I took the distributor off I checked to see where the position of the points cap was and drew it on a piece of paper. I set the points to .025 that came this the kit and rechecked with my set. I marked the pistons on the motor hear. I pulled all the wires out and put them in one at a time and then marked them with tape and marked them with the number from the pistons. I did this with all 4 wires and changed out the spark plugs. I did check the gap and I set them all to .026. I then took all the wires and cut them to length and cut them with a wire stripper to get a short piece of the wire to come up through the hole in the wire metal piece that goes into the distributor cap after I slipped the boots on with a little vaseline.I made sure that the wires were in all the way and slid the boot into place. I checked and rechecked everything before I finished because I did not want to take the metal back off and swing the radiator out of the way. I even gave it a start before I put the metal back on. I am 92% sure that everything was done correctly.

The tractor runs like a top. Last year it started running for and hour or so and stopping. That was it till the next day or later in the night. This fall it started and acted like it was missing and back fireing and just running poorly. I decided to give the points and plugs an over haul. Before the over haul it acked like it wanted to start but just would not. I cannot tell if it is getting out of fuel but the sound with the new points and plugs does sound stronger that it ever has.

 

[Will_Lou]

if you have the plug wires correct then rebuild that carb. i have had several over the years with similar problems. fords of that era are prone to carb especially float problems. get the complete kit not the el cheapo only few dollars more. if you even slightly suspect the float replace it. its a seperate order part and very often the culprit.

 

[Soundguy]

advise?

GET A MANUAL!!!!!

1, a 48 is a front mount.

points gap at .015

I'mamazed you can GET a .025 gap on a front mount.

2, took all morning to take it apart to do points? Please don't say you took the hood or rad off?

it takes about 10m to remove the 2 bolts holding the distrib on, repalce points, statinc time, and reinstall

wide gap makes weak sparks.

correct this.

fire order is 1-2-4-3

if it hasn't ran in a while.. put a teaspoon of atf down each hole.. spin her over.

if gas drops out of carb you are choking her too much.. unless it constantly drips in which case you have a float seat/needle issue and shee's constantly in a state of flood

 

[murphy1244]

advise?

GET A MANUAL!!!!!

1, a 48 is a front mount.

points gap at .015

I'mamazed you can GET a .025 gap on a front mount.

2, took all morning to take it apart to do points? Please don't say you took the hood or rad off?

it takes about 10m to remove the 2 bolts holding the distrib on, repalce points, statinc time, and reinstall

wide gap makes weak sparks.

correct this.

fire order is 1-2-4-3

if it hasn't ran in a while.. put a teaspoon of atf down each hole.. spin her over.

if gas drops out of carb you are choking her too much.. unless it constantly drips in which case you have a float seat/needle issue and shee's constantly in a state of flood

Sound Guy, You are good!

 

[Soundguy]

Sound Guy, You are good!

it amazes me to see the way people will avoid spending 20$ on a manual for a tractor.. then waste 4 hours taking a hood / radiator / fan off to get to the front of a dizzy that is held on with 2 bolts and really, for practical purposes.. can't be put back on out of time.

usually the same people that take an hour to pour in 5.5 qts crankcase oil thru the dipstick hole instead of pulling the engine breather off and using the FILL tube

 

[murphy1244]

usually the same people that take an hour to pour in 5.5 qts crankcase oil thru the dipstick hole instead of pulling the engine breather off and using the FILL tube

Now that's funny, I do agree about the manuals. People spend big bucks on machines and won't buy a 20$ book. Should be a CW song in there,

 

[94BULLITT]

Here is a free manual.

 

[parispete]

First off this is my first tractor and the first problems I had since the purchase. I bought 2 books when I got the Tractor-I&T FO-4 Ford Shop Manual and Ford Tractor Operator's Manual. I just recently purchased-How to Restore Ford Tractors by Tharran E. Gains. I used the gap stick that came with the points set that was included in the package?? I joined this site because I wanted to talk about my tractor with other enthusiasts. I have 2 college degrees in Architectural Technology and Construction Management from East Carolina University. So Murphry 1244 don't play me like I am stupid. You do not know me or the situation, so either talk to me with some couth and quit be so obtuse. I was raise that if you cannot say anything good then don't say anything. I am parispete so remember that next time to want to sound off on my thread when seeking help. Thank you.

All I do appreciate all the information even from murphy1244 and am willing to learn and hopefully gain knowledge and friendships on this site. Now, I was thinking that I do not know how long that carb has been on that tractor so from that point of view I am thinking that I can save the 50-60 bucks and put it towards a new carburetor. Who out there know and has field tested carbs so that I can get a new one. I figure that I can get a kit down the road and try to install a kit and try that then save it or sell it used and rebuilt. What is some good carb cleaner now a days??

 

[sox3]

If your sure all the wires are on right and firing in proper order then I would shut the fuel off and spray carb cleaner into it to see if it
fires and runs on that. If it does, look at the carb and rebuild. If it dosen't then you heve to look at mechanical or electrical.

 

[john_bud]

First off this is my first tractor and the first problems I had since the purchase. I bought 2 books when I got the Tractor-I&T FO-4 Ford Shop Manual and Ford Tractor Operator's Manual. I just recently purchased-How to Restore Ford Tractors by Tharran E. Gains. I used the gap stick that came with the points set that was included in the package?? I joined this site because I wanted to talk about my tractor with other enthusiasts. I have 2 college degrees in Architectural Technology and Construction Management from East Carolina University. So Murphry 1244 don't play me like I am stupid. You do not know me or the situation, so either talk to me with some couth and quit be so obtuse. I was raise that if you cannot say anything good then don't say anything. I am parispete so remember that next time to want to sound off on my thread when seeking help. Thank you.

All I do appreciate all the information even from murphy1244 and am willing to learn and hopefully gain knowledge and friendships on this site. Now, I was thinking that I do not know how long that carb has been on that tractor so from that point of view I am thinking that I can save the 50-60 bucks and put it towards a new carburetor. Who out there know and has field tested carbs so that I can get a new one. I figure that I can get a kit down the road and try to install a kit and try that then save it or sell it used and rebuilt. What is some good carb cleaner now a days??

So you have two college degrees, three books on the tractor and still gap'ed the points too wide? You tell us the engine ran great before you messed with the distributor, wires, plugs and you want to rebuild the carburetor to "fix it"? I'd throttle back on the caffeine, swallow some dry crow, stow the ego and listen to the advice already given.



1) Follow Soundguy's advice. He doesn't just have more posts than you, he has more tractors too --- and by the same ratio! Re-read the book on how to remove the dist and set the points. It's not common knowledge and is easy to do wrong. Very easy. (at least for me)

2) Run your fingers from dist to plug for each one. Verify the order is correct. #1 is closest to the Rad (if memory serves). Make sure you ordered them for the rotation direction of the dist.

3) don't go borrowing trouble. If it worked before you mucked about with the dist, wires, plugs and it won't work now ---> it's because you did something wrong. Go back and verify. When you KNOW the wires are in the correct places, pull each plug one at a time and VERIFY you have a fat blue spark from each one.

I am thinking you have a weak spark from too wide of a gap, but wouldn't be shocked if your firing order is out of whack too.

 

[Soundguy]

I bought 2 books when I got the Tractor-I&T FO-4 Ford Shop Manual and Ford Tractor Operator's Manual.

and if it says .025 for a 48-front mount.. I'd hound the publisher to get your $$ back, OR mark in the correct info with an ink pen.

I just recently purchased-How to Restore Ford Tractors by Tharran E. Gains.

? an ok book.. probably not needed. just common sense stuff anyway. on the other hand. go ahead and keep it. might actually be usefull in this case.

I used the gap stick that came with the points set that was included in the package??

reguardless if they shipped a tape measure or yard stick in the breaker points carton.. it doesn't change the fact that in your application.. the breaker gap is .015

I joined this site because I wanted to talk about my tractor with other enthusiasts.

probably easilly one of the 2 best places to get tractor info...

I have 2 college degrees in Architectural Technology and Construction Management from East Carolina University.

good for you.. I think you will fand many of us here are degree'd up as well.. we just don't carry a banner saying so.

So Murphry 1244 don't play me like I am stupid. You do not know me or the situation, so either talk to me with some couth and quit be so obtuse. I was raise that if you cannot say anything good then don't say anything. I am parispete so remember that next time to want to sound off on my thread when seeking help. Thank you.

i don't see where murph said any negative comment to you? I see where he replied to one of my comments / observations. I think I'll just bow out and let you fix your own tractor after this post after that comment to murph right there.

am willing to learn and hopefully gain knowledge and friendships on this site.

epic failure based on the preceding paragraph i just replied to.

Now, I was thinking that I do not know how long that carb has been on that tractor so from that point of view I am thinking that I can save the 50-60 bucks and put it towards a new carburetor. Who out there know and has field tested carbs so that I can get a new one. I figure that I can get a kit down the road and try to install a kit and try that then save it or sell it used and rebuilt.

good idea.. jump to another system and randomly start replacing parts instead of troubleshooting completely.

good start! ( ps.. I prefer MS carbs ).. just sayin...

What is some good carb cleaner now a days??

berryman chem-dip


soundguy

 

[94BULLITT]

How old is gas that is in it?

1) set your point gap to .015

2) double check the plug wires to make sure they are on correctly

3) make sure you have spark going to the plugs

4) see if it will start

If it won't start pull a plug and see what it looks like. You may have it flooded since you said gas is running out the carb.

 

[murphy1244]

First off this is my first tractor and the first problems I had since the purchase. I bought 2 books when I got the Tractor-I&T FO-4 Ford Shop Manual and Ford Tractor Operator's Manual. I just recently purchased-How to Restore Ford Tractors by Tharran E. Gains. I used the gap stick that came with the points set that was included in the package?? I joined this site because I wanted to talk about my tractor with other enthusiasts. I have 2 college degrees in Architectural Technology and Construction Management from East Carolina University. So Murphry 1244 don't play me like I am stupid. You do not know me or the situation, so either talk to me with some couth and quit be so obtuse. I was raise that if you cannot say anything good then don't say anything. I am parispete so remember that next time to want to sound off on my thread when seeking help. Thank you.

All I do appreciate all the information even from murphy1244 and am willing to learn and hopefully gain knowledge and friendships on this site. Now, I was thinking that I do not know how long that carb has been on that tractor so from that point of view I am thinking that I can save the 50-60 bucks and put it towards a new carburetor. Who out there know and has field tested carbs so that I can get a new one. I figure that I can get a kit down the road and try to install a kit and try that then save it or sell it used and rebuilt. What is some good carb cleaner now a days??

Pete, I didn't make you sound stupid. You did. Then you went one better by posting this garbage. Good day.

 

[EE_Bota]

Op, in the old days, there was a tune-up procedure with an order of events to undertake based on the reliability of the various systems and the way each effects the other in tuning. Any way you slice it, ignition work gets done before carburetor work. Carb work is always last. All things should be right before one messes with the carb.

In many engines, all the other work can be done quite precisely even if the carb is off the engine. But the carb must have all things pertaining to valve timing and ignition timing right to be tuned right. Faulty ignitions screw up the running and therefore effects the vacuum, which effects the air velocity and on and on. So return to the "scene of the crime" (as I jokingly tell our mechanics) and get all that right as rain.

 

[Egon]

Maybe do a compression check, make sure the battery is up to snuff and the starter is cranking it over at the proper speed.

Or try the hand crank. With that you can tell what the compression is like by how hard it cranks.

You said it had startEd acting up didn't you?

 

[parispete]

OK, I went back to the crime scene. Starting at the the radiator on the head cover I marked the pistons 1, 2, 4, 3. I rechecked the points and they were at .016 and I adjusted. It must have been the gap on the plugs were .025 not .026. People say I am getting dyslexic??? It is simpler not taking off the metal and sliding the radiator to the side. Thanks for the info Murphy, and I guess that I just took your post the wrong way. Anyway, I re-did checking the wires. I pulled the spark plugs and I get about a 1/4 inch of spark from the spark test. They all seem to be close to the same.

I have had this tractor since 2005. It sat in a field at a tractor repair shop for a couple years I saw it every time we went to church and back home, and one day it was gone so I stopped in the new day to see what happen to it and they had brought it in and fixed it up and I bought it for $1,200.oo. I had to get new rims on the back after the first year due to rusting and I have to do the same for the front wheels now. I never keep more that a gallon or so in it and drain it in the winter to the bowl. year before last in the fall it started to stop running after and hour or so. Last year it did it again and so I would use it an hour at a time, and this fall after cleaning the garden it just shut off and I would not crank again and I ran the battery dead. I charged the battery and it started but ran sluggish and sputtered and spattered and I got it to the driveway so when I found out what was wrong I could push it into the garage.

I did not notice the leaking at the choke until it was in my garage. I cut the fuel off and put a can under it to catch the fuel. It stopped after a bit. I put on all the stuff and have checked it. The starter has a new solenoid and seems to have more power, but it still skips every now and then. It is not leaking now, but will not start. It sure sounds like it wants to take off. I checked the fuel line and it is getting fuel at least to that point.
I did not get what Soundguy was saying about the carburetor. So I need to get a kit first and try that and then a carb?

I do not have a crank and knew of them for some tractors but that is news to me. I will look online for one.

The economy has hit us all very hard. I do not have the luxury of having money I can use unwisely. I am the student here. I do appreciate everyone's kindness. If I have pissed someone off then it will not be the first time that I have done that. It usually does not last long and bygone's will be bygone's. Thanks