97 425 garden tractor no start

[Gittyup]

Well guys a very disappointing day so far. The ignition module came in which includes the key switch and board I hooked it all up as the other was and the tractor started 6-7 times but as I started the tractor each time I could hear the solenoid trying to stay engaged and then it would release. Finally it went back to the old way of trying to start when the key is in the run position. I guess I will try to figure this thing out one way or another. Is there a way to bench test the starter with a 12 volt battery? If the solenoid is the problem then it should do it then correct? I will double check all the wiring and see if something has gotten mashed or messed up when I had it on the workbench fixing the cam. I priced a new starter not cheap at all.

I don't see how a starter would try to keep running by itself, as it shouldn't have any power when the key is released back to run position. I suspect something happened taking the motor in and out. Maybe there is a short somewhere continuing to provide power to it (sometimes).

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks to Coyote for posting that. Now Weeder, what engine do you have?

Richard

No problem, you guys seemed stuck without it, and I had just recently found it, when helping a friend with his similar 425 mower.

Well guys a very disappointing day so far. The ignition module came in which includes the key switch and board I hooked it all up as the other was and the tractor started 6-7 times but as I started the tractor each time I could hear the solenoid trying to stay engaged and then it would release. Finally it went back to the old way of trying to start when the key is in the run position. I guess I will try to figure this thing out one way or another. Is there a way to bench test the starter with a 12 volt battery? If the solenoid is the problem then it should do it then correct? I will double check all the wiring and see if something has gotten mashed or messed up when I had it on the workbench fixing the cam. I priced a new starter not cheap at all.

If you remove the starter it can be jumped with jumper cables. ground to battery ground and hot to battery positive and then energize at the large terminal on the solenoid.
You probably have a bad ground or hot cable on the tractor. Check under the plastic insulation to see if there is corrosion on either cable at either end. If there is, replace that cable and make sure the chassis ground is clean, bare metal and tight solid connection. Use anti seize at each end of both cables to reduce corrosion.

 

[Richard001]

Weeder,
What is the serial number on your engine. Apparently there significant differences in the wiring for the the different serial numbers.

Also I want it to be clear. You are saying that just putting the key in the run position will make the starter run and crank the engine?

Richard

 

[weeder]

Well that is a problem because all the serial #'s are gone or the plates they were on. But there is a date on the radiator and it shows 1997 which so far I have been getting my parts under that date. So the serial number would be #7000 or lower. And yes when the key is inserted and you turn it to run the engine will start cranking. But the fuel pump does not work when it does that. A few times especially after I put the new ignition switch and board in it worked fine for 6-7 try's. But each time you could hear the solenoid trying to stay engaged and finally it went back to the other way of cranking over when the switch is in the run position. Well I will double check all grounds today, and see if there is a loose one. Thanks Richard

weeder

 

[weeder]

I don't see how a starter would try to keep running by itself, as it shouldn't have any power when the key is released back to run position. I suspect something happened taking the motor in and out. Maybe there is a short somewhere continuing to provide power to it (sometimes).

I agree whole heartedly on that assumption and I have retraced my footsteps several times. I believe there were only 3 connections to unhook to pull the engine all of the rest of the wiring stayed with the engine. I have cleaned and cleaned the connections looked for breaks soft spots etc even when I could checked for continuity. There are a lot of tests but a lot of them have to have the key in the run position and that is not going to work with the engine trying to crank over when the key is in run. I am not going to give up I guess I have time on my side I had started out for a winter project and looks like I am getting my wish. Even tho it would be nice to have a working tractor with a snow blade this winter! Don't give up on me guys I am relying on everyone because you guys have been doing this a lot longer than me and I know I am not a very perfect person so that is why I have to double and triple check myself all the time. I want to THANK ALL OF YOU for all of your help so far and hopefully in the future. Well back to the old grindstone. weeder

 

[weeder]

I agree whole heartedly on that assumption and I have retraced my footsteps several times. I believe there were only 3 connections to unhook to pull the engine all of the rest of the wiring stayed with the engine. I have cleaned and cleaned the connections looked for breaks soft spots etc even when I could checked for continuity. There are a lot of tests but a lot of them have to have the key in the run position and that is not going to work with the engine trying to crank over when the key is in run. I am not going to give up I guess I have time on my side I had started out for a winter project and looks like I am getting my wish. Even tho it would be nice to have a working tractor with a snow blade this winter! Don't give up on me guys I am relying on everyone because you guys have been doing this a lot longer than me and I know I am not a very perfect person so that is why I have to double and triple check myself all the time. I want to THANK ALL OF YOU for all of your help so far and hopefully in the future. Well back to the old grindstone. weeder

Well it doesn't actually run by itself just when you turn the key to the run position

 

[Gittyup]

One thing I see in some of the wiring diagrams is that a fuel control pin (7) is adjacent to an ignition pin (14) on harness connector X3 at the dash panel connector. You say the fuel pump isn't on when it should and it cranks when it shouldn't. Sounds like these two controls are shorting. Pull the connector off the board. Remove those pins and inspect wires, pins, housing.

And I see on the motor their is a fuel shut off solenoid connected to an ignition delay module. This is another "common" link to between the fuel pump and starter controls. Read up on how the ignition delay module/fuel shut off solenoid work. This should help you with troubleshooting what is going on. You can leave the key in the run position to probe for voltages by disconnecting the starter ground.

 

[Gittyup]

After disconnecting starter ground so the start won't continually crank, step through the troubleshooting guide given. This will be very helpful to you.

 

[weeder]

After disconnecting starter ground so the start won't continually crank, step through the troubleshooting guide given. This will be very helpful to you.

Ok if disconnecting the starter ground isn't the starter bolted to the engine for grnd? Or do I have to unhook the engine grnd from the frame? Why can't I just unhook the wiring from the starter then hook it all back together eliminating the starter and do it that way? There are still 2 wires hooked to the starter but I don't think they are grnds. What am I missing here I am so sorry I do not have that much elec knowledge so please bear with me. Thanks

 

[leftybob]

I have had the engine apart on the 425. My problem was no oil pressure. The fiber gear had no teeth left. My cam gear was aluminum so I lucked out there, Not too bad a job for what I had to do. It's a 96 model. Very well made tractor. I have two of them. also a 345 JD