A fenceman can fence anything, almost....

   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost....
  • Thread Starter
#71  
Friday evening I took the client for a walk on the new stairs we have in so far. He was very impressed by the ease of climbing and descending the stairs. Using shorter rises and longer treads make it less work I believe.

I figured that we'd have about ten stones to do today. But my son and the engineering company's employees working with us dug in and got it done. I was just there for the ride.

It is amazing the attitude difference that happens when those working understand the project and know their input along with their labor is important to the process. I see it as empowering them but in reality it's more about getting out of their way once you're assured they understand your vision of the outcome.

If we'd done it just like I had in mind from the get go we'd be behind schedule instead of ahead of it at this time. Now some might feel that the worker's ideas would be about saving labor, their own only. But the fact is they also stepped up to the plate and took charge of the quality issues too.

I wanted to have the random feel so I insisted that we took each stone in turn based upon the way it came off the pile. So we might say the men loading the stones on the pallets in Oklahoma decided which stones went where. We had more than one discussion with the workers wanting to change out a stone or not use it because of a flaw or difference from the stones around it. They wanted perfection. I wanted reality. We settled on either turning the stone over or putting what we'd thought was the front to the back etc.

I laid out the criteria I had in mind for the face and leading edge of the first couple of stones. From then on they decided which side as the face and which edge was the leading edge on their own as the prepared it for the slide down the framework.

What is funny in it's own way is there already have been some comments about my rock selection and positioning. But isn't that the way work works everywhere? The person in charge gets the glory when in fact most of the time all they did was enable people to do their job.
 

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   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost.... #73  
Harv,

First this is a totally unique project most contractor's would have walked away or dug into the side of that hill to get the step's in. What I can't figure out is how did you get your rail's set at the proper slope so that each tread sit's level. I know how you figured what the slope need's to be but with out something level to go off of how did you do it? Also once your done do you have to weld up some railing's for those step's ?
 
   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost....
  • Thread Starter
#74  
The slope was determined by the total fall and length of run. That turned out to be eighteen degrees. It was easy (except for the effort or work) after that.

The rails are parallel and level at only one point anywhere on the track. What I mean by that is if you put a level across the pair of rails you can find level. But if you move the level either direction even an inch on one rail and not the other it will be out of level.

We had to do quite a bit a adjusting on the stones to get them level. And level was the key factor. By adjusting I mean shaving off material on one side for one of the rails. We did this with hammer and chisel and sometimes with a big grinder.

The most common reaction to the professionals working on the job is surprise at my solution. It's so simple most people didn't think of it.

I am building a handrail for the outside of the walkway. It'll also hold the LED lighting we're wanting to use.
 
   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost.... #75  
Harvey, that looks great! It really blends with the area and it makes a statement about determination on several levels; from the client to you as the contractor, and on to the workers who are building it.

Now, I have just one question. How long do you think it will be before some kid goes down it on a skateboard followed by his friend on a BMX bike?:eek: :rolleyes:
 
   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost....
  • Thread Starter
#76  
jinman said:
Harvey, that looks great! It really blends with the area and it makes a statement about determination on several levels; from the client to you as the contractor, and on to the workers who are building it.

Now, I have just one question. How long do you think it will be before some kid goes down it on a skateboard followed by his friend on a BMX bike?:eek: :rolleyes:

Oh, I'm sure some kid is already figuring that I'm creating a new "park" for them to practice tricks, right?

For the hand rail I decided on hammered tubing from King Metals.

Top rail will be 1 X 2 X eleven gauge. Posts and toe rail will be one and three eighths eleven gauge. Of course the posts have to be bent because they're coming out from the angle iron framework holding the stones.
 

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   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost.... #77  
For the hand rail I decided on hammered tubing from King Metals.

Top rail will be 1 X 2 X eleven gauge. Posts and toe rail will be one and three eighths eleven gauge. Of course the posts have to be bent because they're coming out from the angle iron framework holding the stones.[/quote]

Harv,
one of the reasons i enjoy your projects so much is the attention you put into taking the photos and the time you spend posting them. That is really GREAT!
Nothing wrong with being ignorent, when you don't know something you jsut pain don't know it. my question, how exactly do you bend the pipes for the hand railings? (On top of my bum right hand which meses with my typing now my Shift key si stuck so I'll be going form bad to worse :( ) I see the stone circle you are using as a form to make the bend but actually how do you bend the pipe? I guess another leverage question...

I suggest you put a tin can at the bottom fo the stairs for the lawn service to make donations to you every time they are able to use the stairs to bring down thier lawn cutting equipment. you will probably get Christmas cards form them for years into the future :D

Okay one last comment, you know those posts that hold up the rails, would you think thye would have more eye appeal if they were painted a dark green. i risk the comment becuase i seem to recall that you are partial to a certain color paint and paint recipe. the stone is so light in color i thought perhaps a dark green to match into the grass color would make the rails (if they show)and posts kind of blend more into the grass and be kind of invisible. Would make your stairs look like they were floating, just a thought harv

~rox

p.s. thanks for the leverage pics on moving down the stones, those were good
 
   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost....
  • Thread Starter
#78  
I'm glad you're enjoying the projects Rox.

It's not set in stone (play on words) but as of right now I'm thinking of a medium dark green-brown basecoat. Then I'll touch in a flat black over the hammer marks. I'll wipe off the flat black before it sets in good so I get a weathered look.

I'm leaving real early in the morning for Oklahoma to pick up the rest of the stone at the quarry. It's about a three and a half hour drive each way but I don't mind quiet time with myself and this way I'll have a definate date for the stone to be on the job.

I'll be doing handrail Friday and Saturday I'll have my son and son in law help me get the stones down the hill and into place. By next Tuesday or so the job should look pretty well the way it's going to be.

The posts are bent around the slug that's welded to the gate jig framework. I'm not strong enough to bend them by myself. So I use two friends. One is a piece of inch and a half schedule forty pipe five feet long. The other is a piece of two inch schedule forty pipe three feet long.

Me and my first friend initiate the bending process. But about halfway into the bend it gets too hard for even the two of us. That's when my second friend joins the fray.

You're lucky. I don't tell many about my two friends. Mostly when asked I just smile my smile.
 
   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost.... #79  
Harv is the only guy I know who can visualize a stairway of huge stone slabs appearing to "float" down a steep embankment........and then actually "get-er-done". :)

It's good that Harv is comfortable with us all, enough to tell us about his friends, 'pipe' and 'longer pipe'.;)

I bet if this was ten years earlier, Harv would of had some large boulders delivered on site and slab them out with a custom Harv Jig-a-macallit huge stone cutter.:rolleyes:

Harv, Your creative endeavor's never cease to amaze me!

Don
 
   / A fenceman can fence anything, almost.... #80  
Speaking of the lawn service,

Harv - do you have any idea how they plan to cut the grass on that slope - er - vertical face that's above your stairs?
 

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