A little legal advice

[RSKY]

Go to a lawyer. Tomorrow.

Don't mean to be cruel about it, but if you have let your MIL get in that condition without having the papers drawn up that you will need to take care of her then you have your head stuck so far up you can probably see your own tonsils.

One sister was a county PVA and the other worked for Social Security. Both can tell some very bad stories about people that relied on "everybody says" or shadetree layers or websites for legal advice. Both have seen people need to make time sensitive decisions to deal with emergencies and have providers, banks, insurance companies, and other entities reject their paperwork. Some people may make it work but I would rather spend a few dollars now than a few thousand in a year or two. It makes a difference when you pull the papers out of a folder with the law firms logo and name on it.

We had papers drawn up when we turned sixty to give our daughters power of attorney if something happens to us. We have papers so I can take care of my mother and so my wife can take care of her dad. To not make those preparations before hand is just sheer negligence.

I have been dealing with this the past two weeks. Unknown to us my mother had been ignoring notices from different banks on some financial issues. So I get a call and now have had to present my POA papers at five different banks. In every case, when I handed the papers to the bank official, the first thing they did was look to see what law office had drawn up the papers.

I feel for you having to put a parent in a care facility. But you need to get that paperwork done ASAP because you will need it.

RSKY

 

[RSKY]

I have been caring for more parents for the last 11-years and here is my experience. POAs and living wills are only good if they are accepted by the provider, rarely do they have a lawyer on staff that willing validate your documents.

http://www.caringinfo.org/files/public/ad/Tennessee.pdf

This is the reason you go thru a law firm. When they don't accept your papers then you can say, "you need to talk to my lawyers," and give them a call. That works a lot better than, "well, I saw this on the Internet and printed these forms off."

Go to a lawyer.

RSKY

 

[mark02tj]

The health care POA is important, especially with HIPPA. But in all my dealings with doctors and hospitals on Mom's behalf no one ever asked to see it. Saying I had it was enough. It was a real struggle getting both of my parents to do their living wills. Neither wanted to talk about or even think about dying. Especially Dad- he was really expecting to live forever. I had legal POA for Mom but Wells Fargo would not accept it. They wanted their form. Fortunately her alzheimers wasn't too bad in the middle of the day and she was pretty good at covering it up for casual conversation so the notary did not notice.

I had a lot of problems with Wells when I started handling mom's accounts. They'd been giving her info out to "affiliates" who sold her useless insurance. All I had was cryptic numbers that was taking money out of her accounts. Wells would not help me figure out who they were. After mom died it was like no one at Wells knew how to deal with a customer who had died. It took many months to close her accounts.

We've had similar issues with Bank of America. Some sort of "insurance policy" being deducted from Dad's account for several years.

Once you have POA, add yourself as an owner to the bank accounts. That will let you still have access to them after the parent dies. With just a POA, while they're still alive you can go in and conduct business on their behalf, but once they pass away, your POA is worthless. Since the POA gives you the ability to conduct business on their behalf, once they're dead they can no longer conduct business - so neither can you on their behalf. If you're a co-owner on the account(s), it's not an issue.

As RSKY said - get to an attorney.

 

[TheMan419]

I have been drafting these documents in Indiana for 20 years. I have never had a client come back or call and say the bank or hospital would not accept my documents.

My personal experience in dealing with my grandmother’s final days is that the care facility just wants some family member in charge. They want paper in their file to explain why the let person x make decisions.

That said have the papers drawn up by a lawyer. Yes it is difficult to talk about and think about end of life issues. However you can see where this is going with your MIL. You need to take care of it. They are simple papers for a lawyer to draw up. If she is not also doing a will the POA, Health Care POA and living will (advanced directive) should not cost more than a few hundred dollars. Well worth the money so that at 2 a.m. when the SHTF you can take care of business.

 

[fishheadbob]

For a hundred bucks or maybe two, go to a lawyer unless you are the one layman in a thousand capable of knowing all the answers correctly. If you think that you may be that one in a thousand then you should definitely go to an attorney as you are dangerous. A lawyer isn't looking to rip you off but rather will wait patiently until your relative dies and they get to handle the estate. ( and maybe then ...)
When I had POA for my demented mother I also had my nephew who is an attorney granted POA , mostly to protect me from any relative complaining that I was ripping the old girl off. He never had to do anything but everyone knew he was there just in case. I've seen way too many vicious fights in families over grandpa's paultry resources

 

[NorTracNY]

I quickly scanned the posts and didn't notice it. One item that I learned is you need to sign your name, POA. Don't just sign your name or you will be liable. Always include POA with the signature. Also, go to an attorney. It's relatively inexpensive.

 

[dmccarty]

.... I am guessing there are power of attorney forms online for free. Will we need to go to an attorney or possibly just print one off and get the signatures notarized?
...

I will jump on the band wagon to say you should get a lawyer to draw up the power of attorney. But also look at getting a health care power of attorney and see if your family member wants a DNR(Do Not Resuscitate). How much is your time worth if you have to spend hours and hours and hours dealing with issues because you do not have the paperwork done correctly? We have talked to lawyers for years about various issues, many times at no charge, and when charged it was well worth it. Only once have we had a major problem with a lawyer but that is different from the subject at hand. Talk to a lawyer about ALL of these matters and get them to write this up. Not a place to try to save money and it is not that much money.

Decades ago we had a family member who REFUSED to see a lawyer about their domestic situation. We told them WE would pay for the lawyer, just go. They did not see a lawyer and as a result lost their house. If they had spent a few hundred of OUR dollars they would still have that house today. STUPID STUPID STUPID.

Recently we had a family member whose health started to decline. There was quite a bit of conversation in the family about POA, Health Care POA, and DNR along with selling the persons home and moving them close to family. Then the person's health really took a steep dive. The family member with the bad health, spouse, my wife and her sister went to a lawyer and had the POA, Health Care POA and DNR paper work signed. This happened on a Friday or Saturday. The next Monday, the four of them were at the hospital for a checkup. The nurse was talking to the sick family member and that family member died. Simply died. They were stunned but the nurse was more stunned. My wife, who used to work in a hospital, told the nurse to call the code while her sister got the spouse out of the room. Other nurses and doctors where getting to the room to try to revive the family member when the sister walked into the room with the DNR and Health Care POA. All work to revive, stopped, which is what the family member wanted.

I have seen a family member SUFFER for a week because they did not have a DNR. I would not let my dog suffer like that family member. If your family member will sign a DNR, get it done.

Get this stuff done right. It is cheap to do, even cheaper considering the problems and expense if one does not get this done right. Not to mention the human side of things.

Later,
Dan

 

[ericm979]

I didn't need a lawyer for either mom or dad (I was POA and will executor for both). The only legal hassle I had was with Wells and they probably would have required their POA no matter who had prepared the POA I already had. I know many people who have had the same experience with them.

However neither mom or dad had significant assets and there wasn't a huge family fight over things. Not that there wasn't bickering and hard feelings, just no lawsuits. If there's significant assets or might be lawsuits then it's probably worth using a lawyer. Keep in mind that families and friends (or spouses of same) kind of go nuts when it's time to divide someone's assets. People can say they're going to be reasonable and then not be.

 

[Beltzington]

Take this as you will, but it is ironic and amusing that individuals on the forum feel perfectly fine with maintaining high performance modern tractors on their own but when presented with the first piece of paperwork many insist you need a lawyer. Lawyers like any profession are only as good as they are, please share your experience when a lawyer reimbursed you for a loss or spent time in jail because they did not convince the Judge or jury their understanding of the law was justified. If you need a lawyer you already have a lawyer, health care laws are very clear and written at an 8th grade understanding. No need to spend a few hundred dollars to discover the obvious, every health care faculty has processed hundreds of identical claims/issues and can tell you exactly what forms need to be completed.

 

[California]

The value of an attorney is they can tell you what you don't know, what you didn't think to ask.

When an elder reaches the point of incompetence you are taking huge risks when you assume you already know everything. Dealing with health care providers is perhaps the simplest aspect. Think for example how to fairly divide inheritance when one family member has moved into the family home and cared for the elder for years. Still split the inheritance in equal parts? Re-title the house to the caregiver as a reward for faithful service? The elder may think that is a fair reward for faithful help, but if it isn't written up properly it may never take place, or - at least in this state - cause an unnecessary step-up in property tax upon transfer.

What if the rest home is crooked and has the incompetent elder sign over the house to them in return for a guarantee of care - cutting out that faithful caregiver and possibly waiving veteran's benefits or something that was available but unknown? We got a whiff of that obtaining care for a disabled vet relative, there was no reason temporary recovery from a fall should require listing the details of his home ownership.

An attorney can suggest a path through a maze that seems incomprehensible - and a maze which can contain hidden dangers.

You need counsel, not necessarily advocacy.