gerard
Veteran Member
good story Harv - enjoyed reading it!!
A Natural Spring?
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Argee
Silver Member
Fantastic story. Enjoyed reading it. More More!!!!!!!!
TonyC
Platinum Member
Great story Harv. It's a shame the old guy has passed on. Maybe he could have found you a nice spot for tether ball! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
Harv,
Great story.
I know that some on TBN totally discount dowsing as folly so I will offer the following as my perspective.
Dowsing does seem to be an art form that you either have or don't have. Have dowsed for field tile and have been very successful in finding those, not more then a foot or two off. Used it also to find a location for the well dug at our new house and was told by the drillers that our well is one of the best gpm wells in our area (but who knows, maybe a spot on the other side of the house would have been just as good, just don't want to pay for that double blind study /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif!)
Tried teaching a few others how to dowse and only a couple of them are able to do it successfully. The others - well lets just say they are convinced, more then ever, that it is total folly.
Farmers around here use dowsing to find old field tile to tie new lines into. They dowse, use the t-handle probe to confirm, then dig with the backhoe. Amazing accuracy!
What do the skeptics think?
Great story.
I know that some on TBN totally discount dowsing as folly so I will offer the following as my perspective.
Dowsing does seem to be an art form that you either have or don't have. Have dowsed for field tile and have been very successful in finding those, not more then a foot or two off. Used it also to find a location for the well dug at our new house and was told by the drillers that our well is one of the best gpm wells in our area (but who knows, maybe a spot on the other side of the house would have been just as good, just don't want to pay for that double blind study /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif!)
Tried teaching a few others how to dowse and only a couple of them are able to do it successfully. The others - well lets just say they are convinced, more then ever, that it is total folly.
Farmers around here use dowsing to find old field tile to tie new lines into. They dowse, use the t-handle probe to confirm, then dig with the backhoe. Amazing accuracy!
What do the skeptics think?
TresCrows
Elite Member
"What do skeptics think" you asked therefore an answer--well they would be skeptical. To cram 8 years of schooling and not to mention work experience into one answer--I will not try. What is odd is that the water is fairly uniformly distributed in the ground, it is the lack of permiability that determines a good or bad well which may correspond to fractures or lack of as in my area here or in other areas a change of rock type. Not a blanket statement that water is always uniformly distributed in the subsurface of course but then what is the stick responding too. The idea of "veins" of water or oil is not a geology accurate model of the subsurface. Also, how does the stick determine if the water is shallow as in soil moisture or say 20 to 100 feet down vs 5,000 feet down in a sand. Locally in this area west of here were the Arkansas has winnowed the area there are numerous gravel and sand layers all of which have sufficient permiablity to produce water and no one has a problem getting a decent well. I live beyond the area effected by the work of the river in an area dominated by shale deposition. Here the wells depend upon hitting a fractured zone in the shale. Nearby is a area that has a natural spring. This spring is in an isolated sand/gravel in the shale and it makes lot's of water, they are very lucky. As a geologist I constructed 3 dimensional maps of the subsurface, today with computer modeling avaialbe that must be a lot of fun. Knowledge of vertical and lateral facies changes is why geologist always beat dowsers who have been proven over and over to be of little value. Belief in superstition is fun and I may hire a dowser for my next well--why--cuz it is not the witchcraft I am paying for but a locals knowledge of the subsurface fracture patterns he may have derived at by hit and miss over many decades of dowsing not even understanding why the "water" lays ( to use a old fellows description) like it does but just that it does. Or maybe I will just ask the crows.
J
J
Knight9
Veteran Member
Dave,
<font color=blue>What do the skeptics think? </font color=blue>
I'll probably pay for this /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif, but I'll say it anyway. I rank dowsing up there with reading tea leaves and horoscopes. Having said that, stories like Harv's are hard to explain. But, and Harv I mean absolutely no disrespect here, to me they are just stories. I wasn't there, I can't verify them, and I read it on the internet.....3 things that generally cause some skepticism for me /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. My nature is to be skeptical of things that sound "off" to me. Using a stick branch to pinpoint water x feet below the ground just sounds "off". My neighbor had a dowser pinpoint his well location. Below average pressure and ok-to-low quality water. My guess would be that any driller could have hit that kind of water just about anywhere on the property. I opted for a cistern /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.
In any event, I don't begrudge or belittle anyone who follows the pro-dowser line of thinking. Just answering the "What do skeptics think" question.
By the way, I just went and looked up my horoscope "You can get ahead financially today but if you let your personal encounters cloud your vision you may not make the right choices. Moderation will be the key to your financial ventures. " Wow!! I can see how that would only apply to people born in the same period as me!!! Useless for anyone else!!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Kevin
<font color=blue>What do the skeptics think? </font color=blue>
I'll probably pay for this /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif, but I'll say it anyway. I rank dowsing up there with reading tea leaves and horoscopes. Having said that, stories like Harv's are hard to explain. But, and Harv I mean absolutely no disrespect here, to me they are just stories. I wasn't there, I can't verify them, and I read it on the internet.....3 things that generally cause some skepticism for me /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. My nature is to be skeptical of things that sound "off" to me. Using a stick branch to pinpoint water x feet below the ground just sounds "off". My neighbor had a dowser pinpoint his well location. Below average pressure and ok-to-low quality water. My guess would be that any driller could have hit that kind of water just about anywhere on the property. I opted for a cistern /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.
In any event, I don't begrudge or belittle anyone who follows the pro-dowser line of thinking. Just answering the "What do skeptics think" question.
By the way, I just went and looked up my horoscope "You can get ahead financially today but if you let your personal encounters cloud your vision you may not make the right choices. Moderation will be the key to your financial ventures. " Wow!! I can see how that would only apply to people born in the same period as me!!! Useless for anyone else!!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Kevin
MossRoad
Super Moderator
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I love this kind of stuff. I don't believe in any of it, but I still love it.
I have the same "gift" with electonic equipment and computers. Someone calls for help, I walk up, say what's the problem. They tell me. I sit down and perform the tast flawlessly. They sit down and try to show me the problem, but everything works fine. I smile and walk away. Their mouth is usually hanging open as I leave.
I just attribute it to human error..... or is it???? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I have the same "gift" with electonic equipment and computers. Someone calls for help, I walk up, say what's the problem. They tell me. I sit down and perform the tast flawlessly. They sit down and try to show me the problem, but everything works fine. I smile and walk away. Their mouth is usually hanging open as I leave.
I just attribute it to human error..... or is it???? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
MossRoad,
<font color=blue>I have the same "gift" with electonic equipment and computers</font color=blue>.
That's one gift that I wish I had. Seems that I've recently spent too much time tinkering with the computer to get it to do what it should be doing.
<font color=blue>I have the same "gift" with electonic equipment and computers</font color=blue>.
That's one gift that I wish I had. Seems that I've recently spent too much time tinkering with the computer to get it to do what it should be doing.
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
JR,
<font color=blue>what is the stick responding to</font color=blue>
In dowsing the stick does nothing, absolutely nothing, IMHO. The dowser is doing the doing. The stick, wire, clothes hanger, whatever is moving because the muscles in the hand(s) of the dowser are moving. Some people's bodies are more sensitive to water just as some are very sensitive to electromagnetic waves or weather changes. This "sensitivity", I believe, can have some accuracy at close or shallow distances. Dowsing for a well over 50ft requires an extraordinary individual and a large dose of experience and intuition. What is interesting is to see a couple dowsers come up with the same results independent of each other.
What about those who dowse for buried treasure? Saw some special on TV a couple years ago and found it interesting. They sure weren't perfect but finding something buried in the middle of a field or wooded area was pretty amazing.
<font color=blue>what is the stick responding to</font color=blue>
In dowsing the stick does nothing, absolutely nothing, IMHO. The dowser is doing the doing. The stick, wire, clothes hanger, whatever is moving because the muscles in the hand(s) of the dowser are moving. Some people's bodies are more sensitive to water just as some are very sensitive to electromagnetic waves or weather changes. This "sensitivity", I believe, can have some accuracy at close or shallow distances. Dowsing for a well over 50ft requires an extraordinary individual and a large dose of experience and intuition. What is interesting is to see a couple dowsers come up with the same results independent of each other.
What about those who dowse for buried treasure? Saw some special on TV a couple years ago and found it interesting. They sure weren't perfect but finding something buried in the middle of a field or wooded area was pretty amazing.
Harv
Elite Member
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<font color=blue>I know that some on TBN totally discount dowsing as folly</font color=blue>
And I wouldn't hold that against them, either. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Fact is, Dave, that I, like my dad before me, prefer solid science to smoke and mirrors. Dowsing, however, is one of those fringe phenomenons that have intrigued scientists and engineers for many years. I think you already hit the nail on the head when you said, "<font color=blue>The dowser is doing the doing</font color=blue>". The stick, rods or whatever, are just sort of amplifiers that indicate any minute reactions the dowser is having to his environment.
My own personal experience with dowsing came from an encounter with an EBMUD (East Bay Municipal Utility District) engineer. He was called in by a city work crew to locate some underground pipes in my neighborhood. When I see stuff like that going on, I naturally wander out and become a part of it. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif Fortunately this guy was the friendly type and he was glad to explain his procedure to me.
This "engineer" used dowsing rods -- two welding (brazing?) rods bent into an 'L' shape. He held one in each hand, sort of like pointing pistols, only held very loosely so they were free to swivel left and right. He starts off by letting them settle into pointing straight ahead, so the two rods were parallel. He then proceeded to walk the target area slowly with the rods still pointing ahead. Eventually the rods started to swivel towards each other. At a certain point, they abruptly crossed straight across each other, forming an 'X'. That meant they were directly over water.
I thought sure he was pulling my leg (standard joke for annoying onlookers?), but after using this method to triangulate an exact spot, the crew started digging and, sure enough, they hit the pipe dead on.
Not satisfied that I wasn't still being played for a fool, I invited the water guy to walk by my front yard on his way back to his truck. As a good-humored challenge, I asked him if he could locate the PVC sprinkler pipes under my lawn. This was to be my little joke, 'cuz although the sprinkler heads were fairly obvious, I had laid the pipes in an unusual and certainly unconventional configuration (too long a story for this thread).
As you might have guessed, it took him a matter of minutes to trace several of the pipes exactly. He started to ask me why on earth I used that pattern, but I cut him off and said, "teach me how to do that!"
He walked me through it, and I even located some of my pipes, but since I knew where they were, I was pretty sure I was just subconsciously manipulating the rods myself. He left the rods with me when he left, so I wandered the neighborhood with them and never found a darned thing. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
So as far as I'm concerned, dowsing is an unsolved mystery. I can't explain how that guy, or the old fella that years later found my dad's spring did what they did. The fact that I can't explain it with known scientific principles only reminds me that there is a whole lot of stuff I don't understand.
And I wouldn't hold that against them, either. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Fact is, Dave, that I, like my dad before me, prefer solid science to smoke and mirrors. Dowsing, however, is one of those fringe phenomenons that have intrigued scientists and engineers for many years. I think you already hit the nail on the head when you said, "<font color=blue>The dowser is doing the doing</font color=blue>". The stick, rods or whatever, are just sort of amplifiers that indicate any minute reactions the dowser is having to his environment.
My own personal experience with dowsing came from an encounter with an EBMUD (East Bay Municipal Utility District) engineer. He was called in by a city work crew to locate some underground pipes in my neighborhood. When I see stuff like that going on, I naturally wander out and become a part of it. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif Fortunately this guy was the friendly type and he was glad to explain his procedure to me.
This "engineer" used dowsing rods -- two welding (brazing?) rods bent into an 'L' shape. He held one in each hand, sort of like pointing pistols, only held very loosely so they were free to swivel left and right. He starts off by letting them settle into pointing straight ahead, so the two rods were parallel. He then proceeded to walk the target area slowly with the rods still pointing ahead. Eventually the rods started to swivel towards each other. At a certain point, they abruptly crossed straight across each other, forming an 'X'. That meant they were directly over water.
I thought sure he was pulling my leg (standard joke for annoying onlookers?), but after using this method to triangulate an exact spot, the crew started digging and, sure enough, they hit the pipe dead on.
Not satisfied that I wasn't still being played for a fool, I invited the water guy to walk by my front yard on his way back to his truck. As a good-humored challenge, I asked him if he could locate the PVC sprinkler pipes under my lawn. This was to be my little joke, 'cuz although the sprinkler heads were fairly obvious, I had laid the pipes in an unusual and certainly unconventional configuration (too long a story for this thread).
As you might have guessed, it took him a matter of minutes to trace several of the pipes exactly. He started to ask me why on earth I used that pattern, but I cut him off and said, "teach me how to do that!"
He walked me through it, and I even located some of my pipes, but since I knew where they were, I was pretty sure I was just subconsciously manipulating the rods myself. He left the rods with me when he left, so I wandered the neighborhood with them and never found a darned thing. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
So as far as I'm concerned, dowsing is an unsolved mystery. I can't explain how that guy, or the old fella that years later found my dad's spring did what they did. The fact that I can't explain it with known scientific principles only reminds me that there is a whole lot of stuff I don't understand.
