A nice place to visit

[wroughtn_harv]

I mean where do you start?

Tuesday I'll be at a memorial for Elmer Hale in Okalahoma.

Elmer (Bud) Hale was the Commanding Officer of C Battery of t he Eighteenth Field Artillery. They landed right after D Day in forty four and went through Europe.

Christmas Day nineteen forty four every man in Bud's battery (in the Army an artillery company is referred to as a battery) received something for Christmas. It might only have been a pack of Juicy Fruit. But it was wrapped. It was a present. A present for that man from his company commander.

They said Bud rat holed this and that for months and months from his CARE packages from home just for that day.

I've got about six hours of VHS of the men of the Eighteenth talking about the War. I've even got some from the wife's perspective. At the end of the session I asked the men to bring in Bud to get him on tape.

Now you have to understand, Bud was a quiet man. He's the kind that would rather watch others dance in the limelight while he controlled the light, to make them look their best.

What I had set up was a Sony eight millimeter camera off to one side focused in on a chair. I wasn't visible but whomever I was talking to was. Each guy or gal when they sat down would be nervous at first glancing up at the camera. But as we got to talking they soon forgot the camera and concentrated on talking to me. It worked great. I recommend that set up if you're wanting to get it from the horse's mouth you might say if you're wanting your parents on tape.

Bud sat down and just stared at me. Every answer was a curt "no" or a pat "yes". Except for the no patience occasional comment about me asking a stupid question.

Then I asked him why when about half of his men got out of the service and half stayed in after the War he got out.

He looked at me, tears came into his eyes, and he said, "it was the men. If I could have kept the same men as a unit I would have stayed in until I died."

What you don't see in that tape is behind Bud was four old men crying like babies.

The bond those men have was so strong that widows have found it a tie that binds. Every Labor Day some of them show up at the reunion. Bud was a catylist for them.

Bud was a success on many levels as a civilian. But the high point of his life that he never wanted to be far away from was the War and the men who served with him.

It was only a couple of hours after we got the notice of his death and the memorial service that our phone rang. It was from Northern California. One of his men explained that his wife couldn't make it and it was of such short notice, but if we were going, could we pick him up at DFW and could he ride with us? About an hour after that Washington State called and another old soldier had the same request.

Now you think about life and death for a minute. How many people do you know that affected your life so much that you would fly halfway across the country to show your respects at their passing?

Another consideration might be about yourself. How many people have you affected with your integrity and leadership that they would go through heck in a handbasket to show their respects at your memorial?

The men of C Battery of the Eighteenth Field Artillery went through hell. They did it for a long time with the only sustenance being each other.

But that was the price of admission into probably the most impressive club I've ever been exposed.

Nam vets don't have that. It isn't about the nation's patriotism either. In 67 when I came home, or early 69 when I came home to get out of the Army no one spit on me. I imagine for the same very reasons they don't try to spit on me now. I served two tours and during that time there were only a couple of guys that were with me for any stretch of time.

The fact that we rotated in and out on a set schedule meant that we didn't have much time to bond beyond the occasional real bud thing. It was good for us then. But it's kept us apart now.

In the last year I've received word that one of the guys that I don't remember but served with me has died of complications of Agent Orange.

Some here on TBN think that's a scam, the Agent Orange thing. I suspect it's kinda sorta like the poison ivy thing. Some of us are more susceptible to things than others. The fortunate of us weren't affected, the less fortunate were, again, kinda like poison ivy.

I was and am against Bush's War. But to suggest that means I'm against the troops would be like suggesting just because I don't eat donuts I'm against fishing.

About the phonies, feel sorry for them, after you publicly ridicule them without mercy. I've done it and you can bet your favorite bippy I will do it again given the opportunity, with much relish and some pleasure.

Things I've learned about myself and the world from my Viet Nam experience then and now.

1. Never trust your government.

2. Never trust your government.

3. Never trust your government.

4. Your life isn't your own. It belongs to those who care about you. The sooner you're aware of that the closer you get to peace. Happiness is that thing that happens when peace gets the giggles.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I'm ponderin on if I want to get into this thread or stay the He!! out of it. I've half a notion most folks on this board weren't even in diapers, let alone out of them during the Nam, and that ain't condusive to their even beginning to understand anything about that time in history.
Now ain't Then, and then, well it just ain't worth even trying to explain to anybody now.
Round about 140 years ago, some long forgotten warrior was asked about Gettisburgh. His answer was short and to the point.
Bunch of us went up to Gettisburgh. Lot of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you can never understand.
The substitution of the words VietNam for Gettisburgh is a simple enough task to accomplish, and fulfills all need for explanation.

It sure as he!! never was about parades.

Harv, my Granny told me as a child to Never trust the government.
She also told me the only time the Whiteeyes would ever want me was when they had a dirty stinking war they didn't want to fight themselves.
As a child, I didn't understand. I stopped being a child long ago. Granny's words will never again leave my mind.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rich, we have a similar background. I never supported the VN war; suspected it was all a scam back then, and events and confessions since then have pretty much proven me right. But, I never blamed the troops. Back in those days, with the draft, a lot of guys just didn't have a choice. But, even the ones who volunteered, I respected them for their choice. Just like today, when there have been no WMD found, not everyone understood it was a mistake (McNamara's word, not mine), and they did what they figured was the right thing to do. I not only respect that, I honor that. Any person who is willing to stand up for their convictions should be honored, no matter which side they are on.

My VN vet friends understand that I respect them, and, while it's taken a while, most of them respect me, too. I was never one of the protesters who did anything to hurt them, and they know that - but I did let my feelings about the policy be known then.

Today, I have mixed emotions about the Iraq war, but not about the troops who served there. They did a fine job and deserve all of our respect. They didn't make the policy, but they sure did a terrific job of carrying it out.

The mixed emotions are because I'm as glad as anyone to see the Iraqis have a better chance for the future, but I'm more than a little curious why we had to pick that particular country to carry out a first strike and try so hard to kill the leader, when there are worse situations in the world. It's not the way I was raised to believe the USA would act. The reasons given before the war kept changing, and now most of them are starting to sound like so much BS.

I've tried really hard to keep politics out of my meandering. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Harv, that is a really poignant site. I looked through carefully to see if there was anyone I might have known - it's a small world, you know. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

[AMP762]

Thanks Harv.Fore those who forget history are bound to repeat it.

 

[frank_f15]

thanks for the link, very interesting and very sad. i wonder why, so many blame the men that fought there? i did not serve there, nor am i a veteran, but i thank all the men and women that sererved in any of our armed services, be it wartime or peacetime.

 

[RichZ]

Don, you sure are right, we do have similar backgrounds, because I couldn't have expressed my feelings any better than you did.

Thanks!!

 

[RichZ]

Harv, great post. My father is a WWII vet. He rarely would speak much about the war until a few years ago. He was in brutal combat in France, and his whole company was captured when they were ordered to hold a town against a column of German tanks. He said they never had a chance, and he and his buddies were lucky to have survived. Then he spent 18 months in a German labor camp. Not all prisoners went to stalags, some were sent to the labor camps, which were even worse. They were forced to chop down trees and cut ice from lakes in northern Germany during the dead of winter and heat of summer. Many of them died. They were barely fed. My father lost over 100 lbs. My father and his fellow pow's were liberated by the Russian Army when they moved into Germany, and the Russians pointed to a direction, and told them the American line is that way. The labor camp prisoners were all enlisted men, and my father was the highest ranking one, so he led 49 unarmed former pow's through Germany to the American lines. The German's had taken away their American uniforms, and given then all the rags that were left of Bulgarian uniforms. On their march to the American lines, my father and his men had to hide from stray German squads (since they were unarmed), and had to explain to various Russian troops that they ran into that they were Americans, and not German desserters. The Russians threatened to execute them all, several times. Finally they made it to the American lines.

I can tell you, that I could never have survived that ordeal, and I have always been awed by my fathers resoucefullness.

During Viet Nam, my father and I argued bitterly about my anti-war activities. He felt I was betraying the country he fought for. I told him that if the situation was the same as WWII, I would have enlisted in a minute, but I never felt we had a reason to die in Viet Nam.

But my father has been adamately against this war. I was shocked when he first told me that. He has mourned each allied casaulty as unneccessary and unjust, and I have to agree. He watched every news report, and tried to track the whereabouts of my stepson in Iraq, and worried every minute of the war, as we all did.

We'll just be glad when all the troops are safely home. Whether I believe in the war, or not, the troops are all heros. The history books can decide if the war was just or not.

 

[Boone]

I don't think I could be rude or would bother to front out someone that has faked their past and lied about Vietnam, but I am greatly bothered by those that did not serve and avoided serving when I hear them urging others to go to war.

Like many Americans my Grandpa served in WW1, my uncle injured in WW2, my father served in Korea and Vietnam. I still remember the fear my mother tried to hide when my dad said he was going to be transfered from Okinawa to Vietnam.

This didn't happen and they kept my dad on the island with us for four years, where I watched airborne infantry fly over as we sat on the curb and waved back at the troops as they hung their legs over the side of the choppers. The formations seemed huge to me so many choppers, it was also solemn for us because we knew even as children were those choppers were eventually going to go.

My junior year of highschool 1977, my dad came to me and said, "I don't want you to join the military when you are through with highschool. They have taken away to many of the fringe benefits and just are not supporting the troops the way they should be." What a surprise for me to hear this from a career military man. I think I'll call him later today.

 

[utahmule]

A few years after that my dad, a Marine Corps and Navy Veteran of over 35 years service, had a very similar conversation urging me to not join. His reasons were almost identical to those you gave.

Then and now my dad is rarely wrong and a huge influence on me. So I didn't go into the Navy. I have reflected on that decision for years, and still today. Now I have health problems that would keep me out of consideration, and I'm approaching 40, so I'd be SOL anyway.

I'll never know if it was the best decision. I do know I'll always regret not serving my country. Just my thoughts, no reflection on anyone else's choices.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

There are lots of ways to serve. All my life it seems I've been too busy, but now, as we begin to "semi" retire, bith my wife and I are scouting out our new community for places to volunteer. Not sure what it will be, yet, but it's time to give something back.