A nice place to visit

[Anonymous Poster]

"Unfortunately, many of those "volunteers" were discharged with not particularly good feelings about military service. This, I think, markedly impacted society's feelings toward the military and military service."

Naw, I think folks like Lyndon Johnson the theif, and his little playmates like Snotnose McNamara and uncountable numbers of "officers" who chose to view the military as a caste system, combined with the VA accomplished that.

" The all-volunteer force concept, coupled with our current reliance on the reserve and guard components' citizen soldiers, has brought the country's respect for the military and those who serve in it back where it belongs."

An interesting view, but not the one I have. From where I sit, the consensus opinion among the class that matriculated in the RVN campus places the return of dignity to the military with the 91 campaign, supported by Presidents who reequipped the fighting force after Carter nearly bankrupted the military. The sad reality was after that the military was treated for 8 years as a staff of food handlers and garbage collectors to be used to distract the public from the odious behavior emminating from the White House.
Your opinion may vary; Isn't it wonderful you have the right to an opinion, paid for with the blood of men & women who weren't old enough to vote for the government that shipped them off to play the politician's game.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( . . . uncountable numbers of "officers" who chose to view the military as a caste system . . . )</font>

Yes, that is part of my point. The draft is what allowed and fostered that very thing. With an all-volunteer military, you either treat the enlisted men and women like the professionals they are--not to mention paying them a decent wage, or you have no military to speak of.

SnowRidge

 

[Anonymous Poster]

a big part of the problem, Vn era, Johnson and cronies, right down the line, too much politics got in the way. Load your 60 today, fire at if fired upon. Tomorrow, no guns allowed, next day different again.
I believe that Bush 41 was smart enough to let generals and others do their work and stand aside. Schwartzkoff (sp) learned his VN lessons and learned them well. Don't look back and get mad, look back, learn and go forward. Schwartzkoff(sp) in my mind, did the most, to turn around perceptions real or imagined, and get on with it.

 

[19th_VA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( or you have no military to speak of.)</font> Hey Snowridge, so what would you call what we had during WWII and Korea?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Hey Snowridge, so what would you call what we had during WWII and Korea? )</font> Hey, I'm not that old Jonathon, but there was a draft as far as I know, or am I missing your point?

SnowRidge

 

[19th_VA]

There was a draft from WWII through the end of the Vietnam war, so I guess you're not missing my point. I do agree with some aspects of what you said, which is why national service should not force everyone into the military. However, the all volunteer force was in place for a long time before the military regained at least most of the country's respect and admiration. I believe it took a very successful campaign like the Persian Gulf War, and fading memories of Vietnam to do that--not just $'s and benefits for the troops.

I think an all-volunteer professional military is a great idea, and has worked in many respects, but I think it should be supplemented by a national service program. We do have a draft of sorts now--an economic draft. Look at the demographics of enlisted men and women and you'll see my point. What we have now is that those people of means who do not care to serve don't. A few who believe in service do serve. And many of the rest are there for a job and a paycheck. Nothing wrong with that, but I think serving increases respect for the institution and an understanding of what military life is all about.

I believe the WWII generation is more patriotic than current generations, which seem more interested in acquiring and spending money. 9-11 has reversed some of this but not all of it. Listen to all the complaining about the waiting in line at airports due to increased security.

Israel is a prime example of how a professional military can be supplemented with manadatory service. I dare say that pound for pound it is one of the most effective fighting forces in history.

Our military is THE most powerful fighting force in history, but I think our citizenry have become overly self-interested. So it's for the citizens, as well as the military, that I think national service is a good idea.

My apologies for being so wordy.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Gentlemen, allow me to enlighten you as to the status of the current Draft law, and plans for the institution of a Draft upon authorization by the President.
Exemptions as we knew them in the RVN era no longer exist.
Students will be deferred thru the end of their current semester, exception being divinity students who will be deferred thru graduation.
Conciencious objectors will be serving in some type of civil service, such as the old CCC camps, or stateside support of the fighting force.
EVERYBODY, with the exception of the handicapped, will be going someplace when their number comes up in the lottery.
All applications for any exemption will be revued by a local Draft Board, and members of the Local Board are told to send anyone who claims C.O. status to the work camps, and NOT the Army.
Local boards will serve 1 or 2 Zip codes.
The mechanism is in place, and rampup time is calculated to be 90 to 120 days.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Our military is THE most powerful fighting force in history, but I think our citizenry have become overly self-interested. So it's for the citizens, as well as the military, that I think national service is a good idea.
My apologies for being so wordy. )</font>

No apology needed.

I don't disagree with the notion of national service; I disagree with the idea of a peacetime draft, and I do not equate the two. As I've pointed out, I've seen how a peacetime draft works--up front and personal--and I don't like it one bit. No, I wasn't drafted, but I did feel the effects of the draft in the policies and military insanity of the time, and I saw first hand what kind of morale, attitudes, and respect for our country it engendered. I don't want to go back to that again.

As to Israel, well it is a country that rightly or wrongly finds itself on a perpetual war footing. Therefore, I don't believe it to be a valid comparison to this country, which has not been on a war footing since the end of the second war to end all wars, despite what some politicians say.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Nothing wrong with that, but I think serving increases respect for the institution and an understanding of what military life is all about. )</font>

Enforced servitude (also known as slavery) has never brought about respect for the institution that enslaved those who are forced to serve. If you are familiar with what it was like during the Vietnam years, you will recall that the draftees as a group had less respect for the military, the country, and its politicians than any other group--except for the anti-war movement, which brought a whole new meaning to the term disrespect.

I repeat. I do not want to go back to that, and the draft is the surest way to get there.

SnowRidge

 

[Anonymous Poster]

with respect to draftee's, I find your overall observation (RVN era) correct. I do have to say, and I can't answer the how come and why's, the helicopter companies had many draftee's and they seemed to perform exceptionally. If one matched draftee's in probably any other MOS (in country) the chopper draftee's, as sheet metal, armorer, engine, upper/lower pylon, etc, etc seemed to do quite well, some extending their tours 6 months for an early out. Maybe Camp Holloway was the exception or maybe just lucky. Perhaps because they were relatively safe, and knew it, they did their thing so they could go home unscathed. In any case, I would rather see more, voluntarily join or at least not see so much, anti military or unless they come and get me, I'm not interested attitudes. May not be like this where others live. It sure is in central Mass/northern Ct areas.

 

[19th_VA]

Franz,

We do not have a draft currently, just selective service registration. I would respectfully submit that if the draft were reinstituted, there would be a host of exemptions introduced in Congress. Perhaps they won't pass but it's too early to judge.

Snowridge,

Not to belabor the point but what I am trying to say is that the WAY the draft was instituted during Vietnam caused the problems, not the draft itself. In WWII, most everyone served that was physically capable, and the problems of Vietnam were not prevalent.

I also would say serving one's country is not slavery. First, you get out after a couple of years. Second, service to one's country is considered a duty by many, including myself. It would be nice if everyone would volunteer to do it, but they don't. If national service were insituted in an equitable WAY, I don't believe it would cause the kind of problems we saw during Vietnam. Of course, there are always those who resist any kind of service but they do not have my sympathy.