A vast country we have

[hsdfcu]

Exactly what are we supposed to learn?

What's wrong with us using the most oil? We're the largest economy and our economy runs on oil.

We learn to make things that are more energy efficient or buy things that are better. Until it hits the USA people hard in the wallets, nothing will change. Until we, as a nation, change our lifestyles and usage nothing will change. I say the wallet deal since it seems that is when most people listen and try to change.

Yes we are the "largest economy" but the demand does not have to be the largest either. I think China and India are growing larger in demand then [USA]. So the largest economy is not integral to demand. We can be the largest economy run on oil but not use the most either. But we waste alot too. People buying cars that get 10 to 14 mpg is not the best way to run here.

 

[williekioti]

Mike you hit the other point I forgot. We use the most oil because we have the worlds greatest economy. The US is not all to blame, China has been consuming oil in record fasion and that's only going to increase in coming years. Can we and should we move away from an oil based economy? Sure, but I've yet to see anyone come up with REAL alternatives.

 

[coffeeman]

Until it hits the USA people hard in the wallets, nothing will change. I say the wallet deal since it seems that is when most people listen and try to change.

.

Had an old lawyer tell me, "Let's sue the SOBs. It'll cost them a lot of money. If you punch them in the mouth, they brush themselves off and forget about it soon. Hit them in the wallet and they never forget it!." Funny thing, the lawyer punched me in the wallet too. I never forgot it.

What this has to do with the subject;I don't know. It's been 20 years since I went to court and the case lasted 13 yrs. No one won. Both sides agreed to quit. Lawyers were sad...... Your right, I still got a sore hip from an empty wallet.

Cheers Coffeeman

 

[Paddy]

MikePA,

We use the most oil and energy per person. Energy use can be summerized into three catigories;

Transportation
Housing
And all that stuff we buy

Transportation has largely influanced the US. With the introduction of the car at a time of tremendous US growth, it was easy for us to live "out of town". At the same time, 70% of US citizens were involved in the ag biz. Most of Eurpoe was established before the car with concentraited populations in cities. Most European have 5-6 story buildings as far as the eye can see. Mass transist was not only easy to adapt to but almost impossable to own and park a car. I work for a company in Vienna but also travel to Milan, Prague and other smaller cities. Mass transit costs about $1 usd for 45 min of travel. Metro system covers the city corner to corner, and buses cover the rest. Trians go between even the small cities. In the end, you can travel faster, cheaper and best of all you don't have to finding parking! Have a few too many beers with the boys, no problem! We fly everwhere. I bet I fly the Asia, 4 times a year mostly just to to "meet and greet". Europe, 5+ times a year. In most cases, a conference call would do.

Housing. We lve in big houses, plain and simple. I'm pushing nearly 3800 sq-ft with just my wife and two dogs. I have rooms I have not looked into in months. We keep the house at 74/70 Summer/Winter. I takes a lot of energy to build/heat-cool/maintain a house.

All the crap we buy. Walmart has built a biz on disposable stuff. Yea it's cheeper, so what the hey, I'll take two. TVs in every room! And don't get me started on Hoiliday gift buying! All this stuff we buy has some oil content, energy to make it and energy to deliver it and often energy to run it.

We are the biggest economy in the world. Were kind of a perpetual motion machine; buying stuff, using energy all paid for by the jobs of making stuff, big houses and more cars. When the day comes and were not the ones with those jobs "making stuff and we have to import that enery", we will see our perpetual motion machine grind to a halt.

Patrick

 

[coffeeman]

Ya know, you gota point there. But....what's wrong with having the biggest and the best? What we need is a way to side step those creeps who are using energy to rape and plunder the world.What was that old saying that went something like: Necessity is the mother of invention.

Cheers....Coffeeman
.
.

MikePA,

We use the most oil and energy per person. Energy use can be summerized into three catigories;

Transportation
Housing
And all that stuff we buy

Transportation has largely influanced the US. With the introduction of the car at a time of tremendous US growth, it was easy for us to live "out of town". At the same time, 70% of US citizens were involved in the ag biz. Most of Eurpoe was established before the car with concentraited populations in cities. Most European have 5-6 story buildings as far as the eye can see. Mass transist was not only easy to adapt to but almost impossable to own and park a car. I work for a company in Vienna but also travel to Milan, Prague and other smaller cities. Mass transit costs about $1 usd for 45 min of travel. Metro system covers the city corner to corner, and buses cover the rest. Trians go between even the small cities. In the end, you can travel faster, cheaper and best of all you don't have to finding parking! Have a few too many beers with the boys, no problem! We fly everwhere. I bet I fly the Asia, 4 times a year mostly just to to "meet and greet". Europe, 5+ times a year. In most cases, a conference call would do.

Housing. We lve in big houses, plain and simple. I'm pushing nearly 3800 sq-ft with just my wife and two dogs. I have rooms I have not looked into in months. We keep the house at 74/70 Summer/Winter. I takes a lot of energy to build/heat-cool/maintain a house.

All the crap we buy. Walmart has built a biz on disposable stuff. Yea it's cheeper, so what the hey, I'll take two. TVs in every room! And don't get me started on Hoiliday gift buying! All this stuff we buy has some oil content, energy to make it and energy to deliver it and often energy to run it.

We are the biggest economy in the world. Were kind of a perpetual motion machine; buying stuff, using energy all paid for by the jobs of making stuff, big houses and more cars. When the day comes and were not the ones with those jobs "making stuff and we have to import that enery", we will see our perpetual motion machine grind to a halt.

Patrick

 

[Turbys_1700]

The world wants us to consume stuff. We put the world to work. Free market economics work. The Arabs don't want $80 a barel oil. They want to keep it affordable enough that we won't conserve and try new energy forms. China has certainly put a strain on oil supplies. The biggest problem we have here in the US is that EPA regs have hurt drilling, we can't touch ANWAR, and since Carter placed windfall profit taxes on the oil companies inthe 70's NO ONE has built a refinery. We can drill all we want to but as long as refinery capacity is sitting at 90 plus percent we're gonna have tight supply lines and higher prices at the pump. Pure economics. Plain and simple.

 

[Doc_Bob]

The biggest problem we have here in the US is that EPA regs have hurt drilling, we can't touch ANWAR, and since Carter placed windfall profit taxes on the oil companies inthe 70's NO ONE has built a refinery. We can drill all we want to but as long as refinery capacity is sitting at 90 plus percent we're gonna have tight supply lines and higher prices at the pump. Pure economics. Plain and simple.

Amen.
Bob

 

[hsdfcu]

The world wants us to consume stuff. We put the world to work. Free market economics work. The Arabs don't want $80 a barel oil. They want to keep it affordable enough that we won't conserve and try new energy forms. China has certainly put a strain on oil supplies. The biggest problem we have here in the US is that EPA regs have hurt drilling, we can't touch ANWAR, and since Carter placed windfall profit taxes on the oil companies inthe 70's NO ONE has built a refinery. We can drill all we want to but as long as refinery capacity is sitting at 90 plus percent we're gonna have tight supply lines and higher prices at the pump. Pure economics. Plain and simple.

I agree but how many people want a refinery in their back yard?

 

[NewToy]

I agree but how many people want a refinery in their back yard?

Doesn't matter if they want it or not. Government can step in and holler "Eminent Domain" and you are a goner.

John

 

[hsdfcu]

Doesn't matter if they want it or not. Government can step in and holler "Eminent Domain" and you are a goner.

John

True, very true but I do not see refineries growing like mad in the near future. Which can be a good thing and a bad. Depends how you look at it.