A vast country we have

[rustyjeep]

what we have to realize is that what works for one doesnt always work for the other. example: I'm in the AG Biz, small operation 180 acres,also have a full time job in town 30 miles away. I would love to ride my bike to town but that is just not possible. also one of those hybrid plastic cars wont haul many pounds of feed,seed fertilizer,etc.kind of hard to put a 1000# cow in the back seat of a yugo.but on the other hand I do not commute in a 8500# truck.the way that i conserve is i bought a 1/2 ton truck with a V6 that gets 22 mpg to commute and haul light stuff


$10.00 a gal fuel would not work for very long and this is why; I have to run my tractor to cut,rake,and,bale hay.I also have to put fuel inthe truck to haul calves to the auction, wich is 72 miles from the house.(try using a hybrid for that LOL)This adds up to alot of fuel a year, so what kind of a lesson does $10.00 a gal teach me?? I and several thousand other farms would have no choice but to sell,bankruptcy,etc.Us small guys have no way to pass on the cost to the end customer,which is all of you guys.Imagine if Tyson and Cargil were the only producers how much you would pay at the grocery store

Again this is only my perspective from my end,i do not want to offend anyone. everone has made valid points, they just dont apply to everyone

 

[NewToy]

True, very true but I do not see refineries growing like mad in the near future. Which can be a good thing and a bad. Depends how you look at it.

I think you are right. I don't see them popping up like dandelions either.

John

 

[Big_Charlie]

Something else that few have mentioned only in passing - most of the other "stuff" that we consume in this country has oil content in it. Is the milk in your fridge in a plastic container? Does your tractor have a plastic dashboard, plastic fenders, plastic covers on the hydraulic ports, plastic lenses on the headlights, etc., etc., etc.? Plastics, almost without exception, come from oil. Does your family own any nylon clothing, or do you have nylon tie down straps? You guessed it...oil. Kevlar body armor for our police and soldiers - oil derived. Even most of our rubber products today are oil derived, not natural rubber.

Oil is far, far more than just a fuel source in this country. Our dependence on oil goes far deeper than the fuel pump and home heating bill. We could reduce our use of oil based fuels to almost nothing and we'd still need just as much oil to produce all of the other oil derived products. And getting the other products out of crude oil means refining the gasoline and kerosene out anyway. So discussions about fuel economy like this mean very little to me.

Is it good that we're not all driving the super sedans of the 1970's that got 9 MPG? YES! Did government imposed CAFE standards spell the end of the family wagons of the past and bring about the rise of the mini-van and SUV? You better believe it! Are there people driving Hummer H2's who have no reason to other than it looks cool and they can afford the fuel bill? Definitely. Would I do anything to stop them from exercising their free will to stupidly drive an 8000lb vehicle to the grocery store? Heck no! Do I want an 8000lb vehicle of my own to drive to TSC, tow my tractor around, and stuff full of sweet smelling diesel fuel? Heck yeah!! And throw in one of those Tiger tanks for good measure.

I was talking with a sales guy at my local Chevy/Chrysler dealer today while waiting on the service dept. We got into a diesel discussion and he feels as I do that we will start seeing a whole lot more diesel vehicles on the road in the coming years now that the US will have ULS diesel fuel everywhere and as fuel prices continue to rise. That diesel motor in the Jeep Liberty is basically a Mercedes motor. They've been putting those things in sedans in Europe for years. Somewhere around 50% of the vehicles in Europe are diesels, and for good reason - they get better fuel economy and last forever. If we can get those kinds of vehicles out on American roads in greater numbers, I can guarantee you that you'll see coal and soy derived fuel on the market in huge quantities, or maybe blended with petro-diesel like we see soy biodiesel today. I would even bet that you'd find the hybrids going to diesel motors as well to take advantage of the better economy.

But we can't all drive hybrids, even now that they're in sedan sized vehicles like the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. I don't see a hybrid pickup truck coming along anytime soon that would be as capable as its standard engined compatriots. And the trucking fleet, the largest fuel consumer in America, surely would never be able to move to an alternative fuel unless and until someone invented a new engine with just as much or better power and torque for towing huge loads as the big diesels it would have to replace.

And now I step down off of my soap box before being pelted with rotten fruits and vegetables...

 

[Doc_Bob]

And now I step down off of my soap box before being pelted with rotten fruits and vegetables...

And remember, that fruit required oil to deliver to us who throw it at you
Bob

 

[Bedlam]

speaking of towing capacity check this out.
YouTube - Caravan

 

[Rob-D]

OK, here's what we do.

First let me say one thing. Land is power not money. Money has only been power in the last 100 hundred years or so since cheap oil fostered the industrial revolution.

When oil goes to $10.00 a gallon not only the farmer gets hurt but the guy in the 75th floor of a high rise in the big city. Everything he buys he pays shipping for. This isn't true with me or the people I associate with. We're growing our own now and bartering. We heat with wood off our land. get water off our land, and through solar, wind and hydro get electric power. Everyday the fuel goes up we are better off and the commuter in the suburbs and the high rise guy is getting squeezed more.

The difference is the farmer will have his land and he may have to sell off some to cover his taxes or sell a tractor but he still has a place that will support him and his family. That’s the way it used to be and we may go back to that.

Where we live we need something that can get us through the snow so we use 4 wheel drive cars and wagons that get 25 to 30 mpgs. We see people driving big 4x4’s for status or to the store to get a quart of milk but they won’t last forever. If we need to carry more we use a trailer behind the car. This way we’re not paying for weight we’re only using once and awhile. We have a compact diesel tractor because it gets better fuel economy. In fact much better than the 20hp gas lawn tractors that eat fuel to mow ½ an acre. When I mow ½ an acre I use a walk behind mower. I also ride mopeds (110 mpgs) or my bike for errands when the weather permits (town is 8 miles away).

I use the smallest chain saw that will do the job. I’m sure many of you have a bigger tractor and less land that we do (16 acres with a pond and a stream) but it gets the job done.

What I’m saying is use what you have to your advantage and don’t underestimate the value of your land in a world with dwindling energy.

 

[Kaliburz]

Unfortunately, most of us in Ag production, can not control what we charge for our products. The price appears "constant" while costs go higher and higher. If we could make a 'comfortable' living off our land, most of "us" would not go out and get a job.

And the option of selling direct, well, not everyone has the capital nor the resources (or size) to do that. (Some might say go organic, a whole different conversation).

I'm one of the cursed..... I live in WA state.... w/ one of the (if not the highest) minimum wage.

 

[Rob-D]

We lost a lot of dairy farms here in the last 15 years. Tough business! They went mostly to land developers who divided the farms into 5 acre parcels.

I keep wondering when those losses will turn around and kick us in the head.

 

[KICK]

what amazes me is the amount of peeple who commute in those 12 mpg vehicles.

my wife is one of those, SHE has an Expedition 4x4. had to have it. we bought it when fuel was a buck fifty a gallon. I made sure to ask her if she was sure she wanted it because it would suck gas.

made it a point to tell her that I never wanted to hear it out of her mouth how much it cost to drive the friggin thing.

so far she has never sed a word, even though it might have cost her 90 bucks a week to drive it. LOL.

OTOH, I have made a habit of picking up other peoples fuel efficient vehicles when I ran into a good deal, I own a 93 GMC fullsize pickup with a 4.3 V6 and I only use it to get hay or go to the dump, a 99 chevy cavalier and a 99 hyundai accent.

so people can complain all they want. I figured it out a while ago, if you are communting by yourself, go with the smallest cheapest POS you can find.

 

[Kaliburz]

$90.00 a week!!!! That's $360 a month!

This is how I look at it. Can I do w/out the vehical I currently drive? As in, if I didn't have it, am I better off. If one can say yes, trading it in is an option. Second, if one trades in for a better fuel effecient car, can one afford the monthly paments, higher insurance and down payment? If the reply is no.... one is stuck.

My rigs are old. My "newest" is a 91 Sable. As of now, the little things that crop up I can deal with. And the type of car I have vs what they have now, the MPG isn't that good. Yes, at best on hi-way I get 23-25mpg. But the car that I 'want' to replace it only gets 29ish..... not worth the hassel of a car payment I say (either a Ford 500 or Mercury Montego AWD is what I would like).