I agree, when they're available, semi-finished sleeves make for a much more precise fit.
A3.135 piston question
- Thread starter curt3969
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I agree, when they're available, semi-finished sleeves make for a much more precise fit.
Hello , sorry about the delay in getting back to you all. I appriciate all the help on here. I did call my Massey dealer here and he said to use what came with the kit. He said they used 5 different scrapper rings in these engines. So that being said I went on with the rebuild. My next question is: I would like to start my engine before installing in my tractor. Have any of you done this? The way i see it, is to build a crib, Run fuel to the lift pump. Bleed air from inj pump and injectors, and run a return from my injector to the supply tank. Of course run lines from water pump to a tank and hook up oil and temp gauge. Does this sound right?
zslnk
Bronze Member
My machine shop that does lots of Perkins builds insisted on semi-finishing the sleeves in the block also. It ensures a round sleeve and when they are so thin this is a potential risk so I was told. Tractor runs like new and hasn't used an ounce of oil although I've only put 10hr on it running the bush-hog and pushing some heavy snow.
shona13
Gold Member
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- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'Day curt3969 .
The a3.152 is an indirect injection type engine.
The Massey 35 with engine number up to 1935854 should be fitted with Finished CAST liners, and piston rings oem part number 836325 M91.
The Massey 35 with engine number from 1935893 should be fitted with Finished CHROME LINERS ,and piston rings oem part number 841521 M91.
The cast ring set has the top or compression ring that is chrome plated and if it was fitted to the chrome liner it would very quickly fail on startup ,symptoms being excessive smoke high oil consumption and eventually the ring would seize in the bore.
CAST RINGS IN THE CHROME LINER ONLY.
I am not sure I agree with the thoughts that a semi finished liner is the best way to go,if one was to make sure that the engine block bores were free of marks and measured up round which they should then a finished liner that is manufactured to a tolerance of .00005 to .00010 Inches will be well within the operating tolerances given by the engine manufacturer and to date having rebuilt many perkins engines have not had the occassion to need to use semi finished liners.
Question If I asked one of our many forum members remembering not all are Mechanics if he fitted semi finished liners ,What method would he use to Finish them!!!.
Would you hone the liner to the finished size I dont think so ,if the semi finished liner was as suggested Distorted and oval or out of round a hone would not make the liner ROUND all it would do is make the hole larger!!so pray tell me where the advantage is ,Even a machine shop installing liners and finishing them on a boring bar and finish hone would have to be very good to get the liner as exact as the factory finished liner remembering that the whole operation is temperature Critical ,ten degrees can make a difference of .00005 of an Inch .
Semi finished liners may have been neccessary when engine blocks were machined without the quality control the industry now enjoys.
Anyway Just My opinion . And as always, I hope this information is of some help !!
Happy Days.
Hutch.
The a3.152 is an indirect injection type engine.
The Massey 35 with engine number up to 1935854 should be fitted with Finished CAST liners, and piston rings oem part number 836325 M91.
The Massey 35 with engine number from 1935893 should be fitted with Finished CHROME LINERS ,and piston rings oem part number 841521 M91.
The cast ring set has the top or compression ring that is chrome plated and if it was fitted to the chrome liner it would very quickly fail on startup ,symptoms being excessive smoke high oil consumption and eventually the ring would seize in the bore.
CAST RINGS IN THE CHROME LINER ONLY.
I am not sure I agree with the thoughts that a semi finished liner is the best way to go,if one was to make sure that the engine block bores were free of marks and measured up round which they should then a finished liner that is manufactured to a tolerance of .00005 to .00010 Inches will be well within the operating tolerances given by the engine manufacturer and to date having rebuilt many perkins engines have not had the occassion to need to use semi finished liners.
Question If I asked one of our many forum members remembering not all are Mechanics if he fitted semi finished liners ,What method would he use to Finish them!!!.
Would you hone the liner to the finished size I dont think so ,if the semi finished liner was as suggested Distorted and oval or out of round a hone would not make the liner ROUND all it would do is make the hole larger!!so pray tell me where the advantage is ,Even a machine shop installing liners and finishing them on a boring bar and finish hone would have to be very good to get the liner as exact as the factory finished liner remembering that the whole operation is temperature Critical ,ten degrees can make a difference of .00005 of an Inch .
Semi finished liners may have been neccessary when engine blocks were machined without the quality control the industry now enjoys.
Anyway Just My opinion . And as always, I hope this information is of some help !!
Happy Days.
Hutch.
I found that some of these kits come with liners that need machined and others that are correct,also the same for the pistons. I am lucky to have a worked in a machine shop that rebuilt many Diesel engines and gained a good bit of experience there. But I left the machine work to a good machine shop here with alot of diesel experience and feel confident with the liners. I mic'd them up and they were right on size. I just was not sure of the piston rings they gave me. I have the engine back together and finished the Cylinder head tonight. I have to run and get a couple of other parts this weekend and cant wait to start it. really enjoy the input from everyone and hope to learn from all the experience they have to give. Thanks again.
The quality tends to vary too.
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
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- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'Day massey WV.
Good to see you back again and I hope all is well with you.
You say Gap The rings do you mean ensuring the ring ends are not in line ,Stagered or do you mean the ring has to be Fitted to the bore??.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
Good to see you back again and I hope all is well with you.
You say Gap The rings do you mean ensuring the ring ends are not in line ,Stagered or do you mean the ring has to be Fitted to the bore??.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
Thanks. I still have some lingering health issues, but nothing I can't live with.
By gapping the rings, I was referring to fitting them to the bore. I've always called it gapping the rings, thus one is setting their end gaps when they are fitted in the bore. Similarly, I've always called staggering the ring gaps on the piston "clocking" them, because the gap positions resemble the varying positions of the hands on a clock.
For those who may want to know more about the process of setting the ring gap, here is a link with additional information.
Setting Piston Ring End Gap
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
- Messages
- 367
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'Day DaButcher.
I am sure you would have checked when rebuilding the engine but just a mention when fitting the expander type ,three piece oil control ring,the expander is installed first then one of the oil control rings,it is important that the Painted ends of the expander BUTT UP TO EACH OTHER that is they do not overlap when the rings are fitted you can look and see the coloured ends that BUTT up together.
I just thought it worth a mention as I had a Massey 188 That was using oil pretty bad after the owner had a friend rebuild the engine and this was the problem ,the expander on all four ring sets were overlapped , consuequently the rings were not being tensioned properly and allowing oil to pass into the combustion area and out the chimney in a liquid form, lots of smoke and oil everywhere.
Some time back one of the members mentioned that it was not possible for an engine to do this was just one of a few cases where engine oil was being disharged from the exhaust pipe in it,s raw state that is liquid not smoke.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
I am sure you would have checked when rebuilding the engine but just a mention when fitting the expander type ,three piece oil control ring,the expander is installed first then one of the oil control rings,it is important that the Painted ends of the expander BUTT UP TO EACH OTHER that is they do not overlap when the rings are fitted you can look and see the coloured ends that BUTT up together.
I just thought it worth a mention as I had a Massey 188 That was using oil pretty bad after the owner had a friend rebuild the engine and this was the problem ,the expander on all four ring sets were overlapped , consuequently the rings were not being tensioned properly and allowing oil to pass into the combustion area and out the chimney in a liquid form, lots of smoke and oil everywhere.
Some time back one of the members mentioned that it was not possible for an engine to do this was just one of a few cases where engine oil was being disharged from the exhaust pipe in it,s raw state that is liquid not smoke.
Happy Days.
Hutch.