Above ground pool project

[dlabrie]

Well after getting a lot of info from TBNers I have decided to take the plunge ( pun intended ). I am going to install a 15X30X52 oval, above ground pool. I went to Home Depot and bought enough underground 10/2 wire to go the 180+' from a 20 amp breaker in the house to an insulated GFI plug on a post by the pool. I will be running a 1 1/2 HP pump with a 200 lb sand filter. I went to a couple of local dealers and decided I could get a much better deal on line. So I plan to order the pool from yourpool.com .Being that I live in the Granite State (NH). I have already dug up enough stones for a new wall! I have to cut into a slope to get a level area. So I will be getting a lot of seat time. I dug from 8-4 today. Sure am glad I bought the tooth bar! Here are some picts of day one of the pool project. I will post more as I progress. Wish me luck!David

 

[dlabrie]

This pict shows the slope .

 

[njrqs]

All that hard (enjoyable) work will be worth it when you take that first dip !!

Looks like a nice backdrop for a pool too.

Cheers

 

[Inspector507]

David,
Check with your local inspection agency if there is one. Around here, I'd hate to see you run 180+ underground wire and then pull it all back up again and install conduit so you can meet the National Electrical Code, if thats what they use there. You need to have an insulated grounding conductor which is not available in type UF wire. But PLEASE check before you bury it.

 

[dlabrie]

Jerry, The sales guy at Home Depot had the code out and said I would only need conduit if I ran it under a garden. I will check it out.
If I wanted to add a grounding point at the post by the pool, how would I do that? Just drive in the rod and attache it to the grounding wire in the plug box? Would that be a good idea?
Thanks,
David

 

[wroughtn_harv]

On the electrical, I've been told that you don't want to have the situation where anyone big or small can touch the water and an ungrounded electrical source. That's why if a metal fence is within so many feet of of pool it has to have electrical grounds.

Speaking of fencing, you are gonna have one right?

Most folks look at the pool and think about today and the kids they have now. They don't think about the three year old that will be in their lives four years from now or the two year old that is still a twinkle in the neighbor's nephew's eye. And that could wander off after everyone's all excited about a game on the tv. Or in that just for a minute while granny is frosting the cake.

That's all it takes with a pool. That's why the codes for securing them get tighter each year. We're not trying to protect ourselves from the liability of other's bad parenting. It's to protect those who are too young to know and are so quick to get out of sight for just a minute.

The worst thing that could possibly happen would be to have a two or three year old floater. Even if you never knew it and it should never have been allowed out and about.

 

[Inspector507]

David,
Maybe that's why he works at Home Depot........./w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
He was wrong. I think maybe we ought to discuss this by e-mail instead of the forum, unless everyone wants to hear it too.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

<font color=blue>Maybe that's why he works at Home Depot.........</font color=blue>/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Don't get me started. I shop as little as possible at the box stores. I get letters from HD and Lowes wanting my business cause I've got a business phone number. Then I go in and they not only want my business but they want my customers too by offering to install the product also.

I can understand a young person installing a product for HD if they're just getting started. But the bulk of the people installing for these companys are the ones no one else will hire. The box store is the latest bridge they're gonna burn.

Of course the homeowner is the one that's really gonna be left in cinders.

 

[WVBill]

David:
Take Inspector507 up on his offer. The Home Despot guy is clearly not an electrician. And where you put grounds requires expert advice. -You can do it by e-mail of course but I, for one wouldn't mind hearing it too. Never hurts to listen and learn - file something away for future reference.

 

[MossRoad]

Well, since the others are telling you about code and such, I will too. Go to your local government, get the proper permits and code and have it inspected by them before hooking it up. Then be sure to keep the inspection in your records. Insurance companies won't pay claims on un-inspected stuff sometimes. Just another ace in your pocket. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

Sounds like a fun project.

 

[dlabrie]

Jerry,
Others are interested so if you wouldn't mind I'd like to know how to run this wire correctly. I will be starting at a 20 amp breaker in the house. The system is grounded but I wondered if adding one at the post would be a good idea. I bought 250' of 10/2 UF wire, a weatherproof box and locking cover for the 20 amp GFI plug that I was going to mount on a 4X4 pole 10' from the pool.
Thanks,
David

 

[dlabrie]

While I wait to hear about the electric, I wonder if anyone out there can help me with the landscaping. I had to cut into a banking to get a level area for the pool. I am worried about rain water runoff above the pool. I'll post some picts to give you an idea.Pool project day 2.Oh yeah, Had to buy a landscape rake for this project.David

 

[dlabrie]

We grow rocks up here

 

[dlabrie]

Landscape view1 of 3

 

[dlabrie]

Landscape view 2 of 3

 

[dlabrie]

Landscape view3 of 3

 

[Inspector507]

David,
Sounds like most of your plans are on track except for the 10/2 UF cable. The NEC requires an insulated ground in your wiring method to a pool.
If you decide to run cable (for whatever reason you chose) it needs to be 24" below grade. PVC conduit can be 18". If you mount the post closer than 5' to the pool then a regular outlet is not going to work, a twist-lock outlet must be used to keep anyone from plugging anything in and somehow it ending up in the pool. But if you mount it 10' away, it will be ok with the GFCI outlet. Keep in mind the cord on the pump may not be 10' long, some are, some aren't.
A bond wire (minimum #8awg solid) must be installed from the outer casing of the pump motor to the metal parts of the pool. This is done to make the metal of the pool and the metal of the pump "the same". Limits differences of potential between the two.
The only benefit to driving a ground at the post would be for lightning dissipation. The earth MAY NOT be used as the sole means of ground. So driving one there is not much of a benefit. Actually, the one at the house is for the same purpose, more or less. A fault to ground will always try to go back to the point of origination, using the path of least resistance, of the electric supply. So trying to coax it to go back through the earth, well.........lets say it would take it a day or two. The insulated wire from the house will serve that purpose very well. It will also make the circuit breaker open where as the ground rod won't.
I hope this helps you. And hopefully I haven't confused anyone.
By the way........the lad at Home Depot had a code book he was looking at.......? I can't find anywhere in there where it says only if you go through a garden you have to use conduit. They do try to hire people knowledgable in trades when they can, but they have to take breaks too, and some poor lad will take his place.

 

[JohninCT]

<font color=blue>I wonder if anyone out there can help me with the landscaping. I had to cut into a banking to get a level area for the pool. I am worried about rain water runoff above the pool. </font color=blue>

Looks like you've done quite a bit of digging. Make sure that your level area is a good bit bigger than the pool size. I'd say about 5 feet all around. The oval pools (at least mine) have angle braces on the sides that stick out an extra 3 feet or so. Even if you are going to be putting a deck around the pool, it helps to have a flat area all around it for ease of access for maintenance (winter covering, etc). Another thing to check on is the local requirements on height from the ground to the top edge of the pool. Most places require at least 48 inches to prevent little tots from climbing/falling in. If the bank cut is right next to the pool, you will have to make up the difference with a fence of the proper height. I would taper the bank cut back to make a smooth transition back into the lawn. Plant some flowers and/or shrubs... some wood mulch and you're all set /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

Include provisions for adding a light pole somewhere nearby. Looks like your pool is a good ways away from the house (like mine). Its nice to have the pool area light(s) for swimming at night.

Hve fun!
John

 

[dlabrie]

Jerry,
When you say "an insulated ground wire", do you mean covered like the other 2 wires? Is that something I can buy like the UF wire? What is the reason for the insulated ground?
Thanks for all the info.
David

 

[Inspector507]

David,
In short......UF cable is not permitted at all. The following was cut from the NEC 2002 Article 680.
680.21 Motors.

(A) Wiring Methods.

(1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted in specific locations or applications as covered in this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain a copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.