Adding 220v welding circuit to the shop/garage

[SixHoeBob]

630.11 just rates the multiplication factor for ark welders based on their duty cycles. .. and this is more or less applicable to multiple welders.

ARK welders - I thought Noah used wooden pegs and maybe nails.

 

[grsthegreat]

ARK welders - I thought Noah used wooden pegs and maybe nails.

ya well......ARC

happy now LOLOL:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

[SixHoeBob]

OK I hate to get on a soap box. I hear this statement all the time. (it bothers the heck out of me) current kills weather it's 220 or 110 volts.

sorry i cant help it.

I was absent from school this day, so I missed the excitement.

Eleventh grade science class... One of the students (reasonably intelligent male) was bored while listening to the teacher. After a while the situation developed where he put one end of a generic staple into a 110V outlet at his lab table. The other end touched the metal cover. Instant heating element, that burned a path in his finger and thumb. He learned that day to respect electricity. In fact, the whole class might still remember that lesson.
Tolerable pain is a good teacher.:thumbsup: And yes, Weather and 110 can be a bad combination.

 

[grsthegreat]

there making everything so child proof...even adults cant use it.

wait till theres a batch of kids that have never been exposed to any dangers growing up...suddenly travel to another country or?? and find something thats not child proofed, BAM.

Were just dumbing down generations of kids. Its truly amazing that i was able to live this long without safety helmets on bikes in school, without seat belts in my parents car, playing with electric outlets, rebuilding toasters, pulling bullets apart to get to the gun powder.....heck i used to have a 30-30 winchester in the gun rack of my truck while attending college in Calif back in the 1970's. (id be labeled a terrorist now daze).

 

[crazyal]

I love how a simple question "I'm going to get a quote from an electrician but before I do where should I mount an outlet for a welder?" (not exact words but sums it up nicely) has turned into a lesson on codes.

To Nickel if you haven't done it yet I would future plan. I would have the electrician wire up an outlet for a NEMA 6-50 outlet. It may be a little overkill but you can always change the plug on your welder and if you ever upgrade or buy a plasma cutter you'll be all set. Secondly I would think about adding a second outlet for an air compressor (I don't remember reading that you have one). I doubt it'll add too much to the cost.

 

[beppington]

It's the amps that kill.

I've only ever seen High Voltage signs, not High Amperage signs ...?

 

[Mace Canute]

there not rare, just expensive. There called spec grade recepticles, and we use them on commercial jobs. There in the $6-8.00 range. But at least they dont have that crappy tamper resistance rating that i truly hate.

Anyone that allows those TR outlets to remain in their homes is a NUT IMHO....for what its worth. Stupid codes require all 110 outlets in residential to be tamper resistant, but NOT 220 outlets. 220 will KILL a kid, 110 will just shock them and make them think twice about doing it again.

I suspect that the reason for TR 120V receptacles is because they are so much more common and easily accessible in residential. I have only two 240V receptacles in my house, the dryer and the stove. The stove's is inaccessible without moving the stove and the dryer's is very hard for a small child to reach...about 4 feet above the basement floor and behind the dryer...whereas there are many many easy to reach 120V receptacles throughout the house.

As far as which voltage is "safer"...one killing and one just shocking...well, that statement is absolutely incorrect. ( A little FYI...the UK has fewer deaths per capita by electrocution than the USA and yet they use 240V in residential. ) It is very difficult to get a 240V shock from a properly installed receptacle since you have to contact BOTH hotlegs at the same time...if you touch just one hot leg and get a shock, it's a 120V shock and it's to ground. I've had a 240V shock and it HURTS!!! :shocked:Cracked insulation on a 480V between hot legs/240V to ground undergound streetlight cable, eh.

 

[Mace Canute]

I've only ever seen High Voltage signs, not High Amperage signs ...?

The voltage (difference of potential) is what drives the current and the current is what does the damage. If you scuff across a rug, you can charge your body to several thousand volts and yet you are unharmed when it discharges in a small spark since there is such a minuscule amount of current involved with the static charge. A larger static charge might very well have enough amperage available to injury or even kill you...lightening being the most common example of this. From Lightning "The average lightning stroke has a peak current on the order of 30,000 amps. But some discharges, especially those that are totally within the cloud, are only several thousand amps. On the other hand, superbolts do occur, occasionally reaching 300,000 amps or more. The electrical potentials involved in lightning discharges can range up to 200 million volts."

Anytime you see a high voltage sign, trust that there is enough amperage available to cause you injury and /or death. According to the 2002 National Technology Transfer's manual, Electrical Safety Requirements and Procedures, the average male can perceive electrical flow from 1 milli-ampere (mA - also called milliamps) - 10 mA (0.001 amps - 0.010 amps). From 3 - 10 mA the sensation is very painful. At 10 mA is the paralysis threshold, where you can't release your hand grip on an object. At 30 mA (0.030 amps) is the respiratory threshold which causes a stoppage of breathing and can be fatal. At 75 mA (0.075 amps) is the fibrillation threshold where heart action is discoordinated. Fibrillation can not be treated with CPR and at this state it can be fatal if a defibriillator is not applied within several minutes. Typically, the thresholds for women are slightly less.

 

[beppington]

The voltage (difference of potential) is what drives the current and the current is what does the damage. If you scuff across a rug, you can charge your body to several thousand volts and yet you are unharmed when it discharges in a small spark since there is such a minuscule amount of current involved with the static charge. A larger static charge might very well have enough amperage available to injury or even kill you...lightening being the most common example of this. From Lightning "The average lightning stroke has a peak current on the order of 30,000 amps. But some discharges, especially those that are totally within the cloud, are only several thousand amps. On the other hand, superbolts do occur, occasionally reaching 300,000 amps or more. The electrical potentials involved in lightning discharges can range up to 200 million volts."

Anytime you see a high voltage sign, trust that there is enough amperage available to cause you injury and /or death. According to the 2002 National Technology Transfer's manual, Electrical Safety Requirements and Procedures, the average male can perceive electrical flow from 1 milli-ampere (mA - also called milliamps) - 10 mA (0.001 amps - 0.010 amps). From 3 - 10 mA the sensation is very painful. At 10 mA is the paralysis threshold, where you can't release your hand grip on an object. At 30 mA (0.030 amps) is the respiratory threshold which causes a stoppage of breathing and can be fatal. At 75 mA (0.075 amps) is the fibrillation threshold where heart action is discoordinated. Fibrillation can not be treated with CPR and at this state it can be fatal if a defibriillator is not applied within several minutes. Typically, the thresholds for women are slightly less.

OK, I get all that - Just curious why High Voltage was chosen as the warning sign over High Amperage ...

 

[crazyal]

OK, I get all that - Just curious why High Voltage was chosen as the warning sign over High Amperage ...

Voltage is what jumps. A spark plug works because of high voltage, lightning strikes because of high voltage. The simple fact is voltage and amps are tied together.

Just saying it's the amps that kill you is only sort of true. For the amps to kill you it must get to your heart. The human body has a fixed resistance, you can drop it when you wet your skin, but let's assume you are not stingin knee deep in water in the pouring rain working on an AC panel.

If you have ever heard of ohm's law you know that V(volts)=I(amps)xR(resistance). If the resistance stays the same and you increase the voltage then you decrease the amps needed. And like Mace pointed out it only takes a small amount of current, 75mA to kill, if it reaches your heart. I avoided the effects of frequency to simplify things.

In the real world when ever you see that sign it means that high voltage and high current, beware.