Adding 3rd function with bh?

[super dave]

Hey to all. Here goes, having questions about power beyond. I own a Kubota b3200 with fel/ bh. I just purchased the new 55 inch wicked grapple,ati quick attach, bucket plate and wr long 3rd function kit. Why can I not t off the power beyond rather than change out the hose every time I take the bh off to use the 3pt lift. Meaning rearranging hose attachment point. The grapple and the bh can not both be hydraulically connected at the same time (functional). Im not trying to use both at the exact same time but only one can be connected at a time according to wr long,,,,,, WHY?...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Hey to all. Here goes, having questions about power beyond. I own a Kubota b3200 with fel/ bh. I just purchased the new 55 inch wicked grapple,ati quick attach, bucket plate and wr long 3rd function kit. Why can I not t off the power beyond rather than change out the hose every time I take the bh off to use the 3pt lift. Meaning rearranging hose attachment point. The grapple and the bh can not both be hydraulically connected at the same time (functional). Im not trying to use both at the exact same time but only one can be connected at a time according to wr long,,,,,, WHY?...

No good reason not to plumb it into the supply line of the power beyond IMO. :confused3: Then you have access to ALL the hydraulics all the time. :thumbsup:

You talked to Nelson Long about this? If so, I would think that he would give you a reason. If not, give him a call.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

The intent is for the 3rd function valve to install between the backhoe line and the PB source. Installing them in series maintains the loop and allows you to keep everything hooked up at the same time.

I do not have near the knowledge as Nelson when it comes to hydraulics, but I think it's accurate.

Here's a diagram that makes it easier to understand. http://wrlonginc.com/Hyd DO3B Flow Diagram.pdf
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Oh, and congrats on the 55" Wicked Grapple purchase. :cool2: You're gonna LOVE the strong 200 pound useful work of art!!
Travis

 

[scdeerslayer]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "rather than change out the hose every time I take the bh off to use the 3pt lift". With my backhoe you break the series and add the backhoe in, then when you take the backhoe off, you remove it from the series and reconnect the loop, is yours different?

You can't tee into a open center hydraulic system (except the non-pressure return to tank line). Everything must be in series.

 

[super dave]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "rather than change out the hose every time I take the bh off to use the 3pt lift". With my backhoe you break the series and add the backhoe in, then when you take the backhoe off, you remove it from the series and reconnect the loop, is yours different?

You can't tee into a open center hydraulic system (except the non-pressure return to tank line). Everything must be in series.

I think I'm not completely understanding. I contacted wr long, I know from he ( can't remember his name huh) that I will need an additional line other than in the kit to make this work due to total length because of factory bh set up (rear remote, power beyond being used and is further back (plumbed with hard lines). Wr long was very forth coming and polite with info, will be doing business with them again for future needs. EA also very impressed with there products and service. Prices seem high until you really look at craftsmanship,design. I modify everything and know the thought time and cost is high. I will be posting pics soon. I'm a home owner and have a lot of attachments for this tractor, almost all have been modified. Sink kubota is my primary go to for parts. This Friday I take the tractor in and they said they will make the lines on the spot and supply me with everything needed to plumb it the way it has been explained by this post. Don't have to take tractor off trailer for them to do this. That is on the spot service, send me home and add the lines!!!

 

[Budaroo]

Super Dave, I assume you got it all installed? I'm struggling with the same thing on my L4060. Any tips? Did you have to purchase a new hose from the new 3rd function valve out to the back hoe?

 

[super dave]

I did add the 3rd function. It is tied in to the power beyond on hydraulic distribution block ( may not be proper terminology), but have not yet added hydraulic thumb. I致e read many threads and none have a good solution. According to Kubota dealership it is impossible. I壇 believe that if they would explain why. Other kubota models have this, why can稚 mine have it. What would have to be changed or modified? Back to your question. No I didn稚 purchase lines from third function to bh thumb. Reason being I want to have the ability be to use grapple and bh thumb without changing lines back and forth. I値l figure this out and obviously without kubotas help

 

[downsizingnow48]

I did add the 3rd function. It is tied in to the power beyond on hydraulic distribution block ( may not be proper terminology), but have not yet added hydraulic thumb. I致e read many threads and none have a good solution.

What do you mean by that? None have a good solution? Solution to what? It is not clear what you have done or what you want to do.

 

[ericm979]

There's no reason that you can't have a 3rd function, backhoe and a hydraulic thumb on the backhoe. And you can have a port to plug the backhoe into if you want too.
It's just a matter of plumbing it all correctly. You can not tee a pressure line.

 

[RickB]

There's no reason that you can't have a 3rd function, backhoe and a hydraulic thumb on the backhoe. And you can have a port to plug the backhoe into if you want too.
It's just a matter of plumbing it all correctly. You can not tee a pressure line.

I agree.

 

[super dave]

Sorry, I wasn稚 very clear (duh on my part). Sink kubota said that using the third function on the power beyond was the way to go. They did my lines also. The third function kit lines were to short. They said that it wasn稚 possible to tee off power beyond for the hydraulic thumb, why I don稚 know or understand. What I am understanding is that bh thumb cylinder has to be able to bleed back so as not damage either bh thumb cylinder or bucket cylinder. I知 not giving up just busy working all the time. I have a big creek to pond project where I will definitely need hydraulic thumb to place rock and grapple as well (next 2 years or so). EA is a great company. I purchased a 55in root grapple that I can稚 praise enough about. I致e moved sheets of steel, crushed empty pallets (by accident). In the fall when use tractor with vac when the leaves are deep and the hoper is full I grab a big pile of leaves with the grapple. Recently I helped my father-in-law drop over 3 yes 3 hundred tall pines and process them. My tractor is only a b3200 but the trees measured between 70 and 80 feet. I could pick the whole tree of the ground about a foot then we used a tap measure then cut and took to the neighbor who has a saw mill. It made great lumber for the new barn. This grapple is awesome. It flex痴 but does not bend like most others,,, well worth the money and very light weight

 

[super dave]

Not sure why my post has weird icons in it???

 

[ericm979]

With open center hydraulics you can't tee off a pressure line. With open center, there is constant flow from the pump. It flows through each valve in turn, then to the 3pt and into the tank. When you operate a valve the flow is diverted, into cylinders or whatever is attached to the valve. It gets a little more complex in that there are two types of valve, one that has just an in and an out in addition to work ports to operate cylinders, and one that has an in, power beyond and tank. Either kind can support other valves after them in the chain (though there are caveats that I'm leaving out to keep it simple). The key thing to remember is that when you operate a valve, it pressurizes the entire chain before it. So they need to be designed for that.

When you put the backhoe on and plug it in, you're just adding it's valve stack to the chain.

You can add a thumb in a few ways. You can put a new valve for it in the stack on the BH. That's the cleanest. You can use a diverter to divert the flow from another BH valve like stabilizer, to the thumb. That can be electric or mechanical. Or you can plumb the thumb in to the tractor. That's when the caveats come in. Many BH valve stacks are not designed to be pressurized by valves farther down in the chain, which is why you're not supposed to operate the 3pt with the BH connected. If you connect the thumb before the BH in the chain, then its valve needs to be able to handle full pressure when the BH is operated. Also, if the thumb is connected before the BH, using it will keep the BH from getting (much) flow, so you won't be able to move the thumb and BH at the same time.

 

[BukitCase]

The link to diagram (Travis) gives an error for me - I looked around long's site and found this

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/701dd3_4fb5a989c44f4e06964d90dea466d811.pdf

HTH... Steve

 

[downsizingnow48]

That is an excellent diagram. To run my hydraulic thumb I inserted another control valve after the 4in1 valve and before the backhoe inlet. Has worked for years flawlessly. I cannot understand why the dealer says it is impossible. Many other TBN folk have done similar.

 

[BukitCase]

"why the dealer says it is impossible" - Pat, it probably IS impossible (for HIM) ...Steve

 

[super dave]

I agree, the dealer wasn稚 happy that I didn稚 purchase 3rd function valve from them and almost turned me away when I asked them to make and install 2 lines. That diagram is what I致e been looking for. This fall I will have my hydraulic thumb

 

[ericm979]

If you search TBN for hydraulic thumb you'll find a bunch of threads describing different ways to plumb it in.