Adding an extra valve to my Jinma FEL

[Rick in WA]

Thanks for the replies. I am going to do a couple of pressure checks on my system to experiment with a couple ideas, then I am going to call the FEL manufacturer to verify what exactly the valve I have is, which will give me a better idea of which way to go.
Rick

 

[Harry in Ky]

That's worth a try I guess, but I doubt anyone at Koyker will be able to tell you what valve you have. I could be wrong on that.

You could also post some photos of the valve from different angles. Someone may be able to tell you what it is, and most likely be able to tell you if it's a power beyond type.

 

[ericm979]

Besides posting pics, there should be a manufacturer and model number somewhere on the valve. It's often cast in to the housing and/or on a name plate. If you can find that you can look up the manufacturer's data sheet, which often describes the available options like power beyond. I've been able to find data sheets even for chinese valves.

Generally if there are seven ports on the loader valve it's got power beyond and its being used. Four work ports, one input, one tank and the PB port.

 

[Rick in WA]

So I have determined it is an open center valve, with power beyond capabilities, but not being used yet. I am going to get the power beyond sleeve and install it, and then run my grapple from that. Still trying to decide on an another da valve, or an electric divertor. I don't really care a lot if I can only use one function at a time, so either way should work. I believe another valve is the better way to go because I don't trust solenoids for the long haul.
I am thinking this one.
Rick

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1 Spool 10 GPM Chief 220906 DA Hydraulic Valve​

item number: 9-12460 PRICE: $69.95 792 In Stock

COMPACT 1 SPOOL DOUBLE ACTING DIRECTIONAL CONTROL VALVE
New CHIEF directional control valve for operating double acting cylinders. Ideal for small tractors and other compact applications. Features include monoblock construction, built-in adjustable pressure relief valve, load check, spring centering spool action, open center, side inlet/outlet ports, top work ports and vertical or horizontal handle mounting.
Closed center conversion plug and power beyond conversion plug sold separately.

SPECIFICATIONS

• Open Center
• Spools One
• Flow 10 GPM max.
• Pressure 3600 PSI max.
• Relief Valve Set at 2250 PSI, adj. 1500-3600 PSI
• In/Out Ports SAE 10
• Work Ports SAE 8
• Mount 2 hole base
• Size 8-1/4" x 3-5/8" x 2-7/16"
• Shpg. 8 lbs.

 

[ericm979]

I have a similar valve on my Branson, mounted to the fender a short reach from the loader joystick. The dealer installed it. I was planning on using it for a side shift flail mower but ended up running hoses up front to operate the grapple. When operating the grapple I have to move my hand back and forth from the joystick to the valve lever and back. It's ok but not ideal.

With an electric over hydraulic diverter or true third function you can have switches on the joystick so you don't need to move your hand to open or close the grapple. Eventually I'll do that, probably 3rd function.

If I was going to go to the trouble to add a valve I'd do the small extra work to make it a 3rd function or diverter. The solenoid operated valves are pretty reliable, and if they ever fail you can either replace the parts or the valve. Many of the 3rd function valves bolt to a sub plate which makes it super easy to remove and replace the valve as there are no hoses to detach.

A diverter takes the flow from the loader valve's work ports (usually the curl ones) and when the switch is activated and the joystick is moved to open the valves, sends it to the grapple. A 3rd function does the same independent of the loader valve. The practical difference is that with the 3rd function you just have on and off while with the diverter you can feather the valve. I rarely do that for my grapple, 99% of the time it's full on or off. The diverter is a little easier to plumb since its all on the loader.

I'm puzzled about your current setup. You say the flow goes from the pump to the loader valve, then to the splitter which sends flow to the steering and 3point. But that the loader valve's PB port is not being used. If it's got a PB port, that's what should be sending flow to the splitter. Not the tank port.

Also from your description I think your loader valve should be plumbed in after the steering splitter not in front of it. Then the steering would always get flow even when the loader is operated.

 

[Rick in WA]

That is the way the Jinma's seem to be set up with the installed loader, as far as the way things are plumbed. With the way it is plumbed, if you use the loader valve, you have no steering. On my current loader valve, the fitting that is shown for the power beyond just has a plug in it, and not any fitting sticking up like the diagrams show. Confusing set up for sure.
Rick

 

[Harry in Ky]

Not really confusing at all. The new valve you're planning on using is set up the same way. In fact, most power beyond capable valves have at least two outlet ports, only one is machined for the sleeve. The rest are just just open to the internal passages of the casting. You really should try to find the sleeve to fit the loader valve as well. Having two valves in series, only one of which has power beyond, is rather pointless unless the second one drains to sump. You don't have that. You have steering and three point downstream from the valves.

 

[Ricks284]

Rick in WA,

I'd be interested to hear how you end up adding the 3rd function valve.
I'm considering the same upgrade, except I have a different loader (Jinma ZL-20).
Your loader valve is better than mine, because my Jinma valve has no PB port (I think).

I can confirm that your FEL is plumbed exactly like mine -- with the FEL valve input directly fed by the pump, and the FEL output going to the steering diverter valve. My limited understanding of how this works is that all flow out of the FEL open center valve goes to the steering diverter valve, since there is no "return to tank" line. I think this is probably the least expensive way to plumb in the FEL, and it sacrifices power steering whenever the FEL functions are used. I can live with that, but I'd like to upgrade my FEL valve to one that doesn't leak. Does your Koyker valve have a joystick or two levers? Does it leak?

I'm planning to change my FEL valve to one like yours, and add a 3rd function to the PB port. I haven't decided yet whether to use a manual or electric 3rd function valve. Since the 3rd function valve is being added to the PB port, I'm not sure if it can be a closed center valve, or whether it needs to be an open center valve (with a return line to the tank).

Thanks,
Rick in MD

 

[ericm979]

In an open center system all valves need to be open center.

If I had one of these machines I'd strongly consider re-plumbing it so that the steering flow divider was first after the pump.

If there is no PB port on the loader valve, and the valve's tank port is plumbed to the 3pt, then the valve may be one where the tank port can handle full system pressure. In which case you don't need a new valve with PB port, you can use the line from the tank port to run your 3rd function. I would look up the valve's specs just to be sure.

 

[Rick in WA]

I wound up just going with an electric divertor valve tied in to my curl function. I decided to not spend the extra money for an actual third function valve just because it was a few hundred dollars more, and I didn't want the hassle of messing with the FEL valve at all, and it was just not worth the extra expense to me. I haven't installed it yet as it is just supposed to get here later today or tomorrow, but it looks easy enough.
Still trying to figure out if it better to tie in to the curl or lift circuit though. No matter what I do, I can only run one at time anyway, so most likely staying with the curl circuit.
My FEL valve is a joystick style, and it does not leak. I do need to order a boot for it as mine is cracked all the way through.
Rick