Adding Grapple

[Domush]

Thanks JCByrd24.

Your explanation finally made me realize why it is called power beyond. I couldn't find anywhere which described why it was called that and why it was needed. It really is descriptive, but only in context. Calling it a high pressure carryover is much more descriptive and finally got my head wrapped around the purpose of it.

I'm still puzzled as to why it isn't possible to simply make a 3-in-1 or similar splitter, like a garden hose has, in order to allow multiple devices on the same line. That way they are in parallel instead of series, which seems better suited for something like a bucket loader with a grapple, which needs multiple valves to be active at once. Or is a PB outlet really a 2->1 parallel splitter built into each valve assembly misrepresented as an in-series outlet?

BTW, kenmac, post before and after pictures, please. I'm really curious as to how you reinforce the bucket to handle it.

 

[J_J]

The Prince log splitter valve has a tank port pressure of 150 lbs.If you use this valve in a stand alone log splitter, you probably will only see a very low back pressure.

If you use a 3pt log splitter, and plug it into some QD's at the back, then you are adding the log splitter valve in line or in series with all the other valves, and in front of the 3pt valve. If you then activate the 3pt, and you are lifting max load, then the full pressure is reflected back through all the hoses and valves and the pressure will show up in a gage at the input to the FEL valve.

If it blows, it blows, and you take your chances.

You can get away with some things sometimes, but never will you get away with everything all the time.

 

[JCByrd24]

Domush, valves in parallel won't work in an open center system, which is what our Yanmars and nearly all compact tractors have. In open center, the valve is open from the IN to OUT port when not in use. When you're not using your loader, the system has almost no pressure in it, because it's an open circuit from pump to tank. A good example is an air compressor with its drain left open, the compressor is running, but no pressure is building, because there is a path for the flow to go. Close the drain, and pressure will build, and be available in other places. Another example is a garden hose with no spray nozzle on it. If you put a pressure gage in the hose, it would be very low pressure. When the valve is shifted fully, the pump is pumping directly into the cylinders, making them move against the resistance, and the pump will move those cylinders until the pressure is enough to trip the relief valve. The pressure depends on the load, not the pump. If you had more than one open center valve in parallel, the system would never build pressure if one of the valves was in neutral.

Now, a loader valve may be a series/parallel arrangement, where both circuits can be powered at once, but the circuit with the least resistance will get the flow. I don't know the details of these as well.

Now, many large pieces of equipment have closed center systems. Each valve is basically tee'd in parallel, and all can draw from the pump output, but in neutral the flow is blocked through the valve. This requires a variable displacement pump or some other pressure regulation so when all valves are in neutral the pump doesn't blow up, but when all valves are open full pump flow is available. This is more expensive and complicated, and thus not commonly implemented in smaller/cheaper equipment.

 

[runningbird]

Describe what you have for hyd, and maybe some pictures. Perhaps someone can help.

My tractor is up at my other place now. when I bring it home I will get some pictures and post for help.

Thanks for checking in on us Yanmar owners.

 

[kenmac]

Why they plumb these yanmars like this I haven't a clue.All I have seen are plumbed this way. I do have a hard time with the loader when I have my cutter on the back with the 3 pt raised. I can close off the lock under the seat to hold the cutter up & with my 3 pt leaver all the way down the loader works fine. As soon as I let off on the lock & use the hydraulics to hold the cutter up, the loader moves slow. connecting a valve like this http://www.hoyetractor.com/support/knowledgebase.php?article=58 is the only way that I know to get this to work. I may have to call Koyker & ask them if they have a valve & how to plumb this thing up. It would appear that I could plumb this https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=9-7861 valve in series with my loader valve.I'll have to ask someone smarter than myself

 

[runningbird]

I don't think Koyker will be able to help you. They make a nice loader but remember they are a primarily a steel manufacturer. They buy they hydraulics separately and move them to us.

I bet if you take some pictures of your loader valve, and maybe your hydraulic block JJ can help you. At least that's what I'm hopping for when I get to my FX28d.

 

[kenmac]

I bet if you take some pictures of your loader valve, and maybe your hydraulic block JJ can help you. At least that's what I'm hopping for when I get to my FX28d.

I posted a pic of my loader valve for JJ in the Hydraulic section of the Forum. I talked to Koyker about a month ago when the loader wouldn"t operate with the 3 pt raised up. I thought the guy in the tech dept told me they had a valve that would operate the loader with the 3 pt raised. Loader works great when I raise the 3 pt & set the lock under the seat & lower the lift lever

 

[JCByrd24]

Sounds like maybe your loader valve and 3ph valve ended up in parallel somehow. This would allow the flow to go through the 3ph valve and not build pressure to operate the loader. Closing the lock valve is then allowing pressure to build and letting the loader valve function like it's the only valve.

 

[J_J]

My take on the 3pt valve is this. The 3pt has three functions, concerning the valve.

In the neutral position, the fluid from the pump just flows through this valve to tank.

In the raise position, the valve direct fluid to the 3pt cyl and the implement raises. Lower the lever slightly to take the valve out of relief.

In the down position, the valve let fluid out of the 3pt cyl, and the 3pt arms/implement descend .

The rate of descent knob, is used to vary the descent rate, and to close off the 3pt fluid so the cyl is locked at that position.

You should know also that when you hold the 3pt lever to raise, the 3pt relief will activate, and the fluid in the hyd line, all the way back to the pump is pressurized at the 3pt relief pressure rating.

If I remember right, there are some tractors that when raising the 3pt lever fully up, this function will provide fluid to a set of outlets for the rear.

 

[stormpetrel]

All right, I'm gonna weigh in here. I must confess though, all the three point talk and parallel whatevers? They have me lost!!! The reason I haven't thrown in my two cents is that it sounded like your system was different from mine.

I can tell you what I did. I contacted Koyker, where they were nice enough to sell me a power beyond plug. Once I understood the basic mechanics of it (which took me WEEKS) it was easy. (thanks J.J.

The supply to the grapple valve comes from the power beyond plug from the loader valve. The operating lines go from the grapple valve to the grapple, and back to the grapple valve. The used hydraulic fluid goes from the "out" plug in the grapple valve, and tees into the hydraulic return line. It's that simple.

In the photos, you can see how I made an aluminum plate to fit over the existing loader valve, and you can see the "feed" line going from the power beyond plug in the loader valve to the grapple valve (which is the upper of the two).

So....the grapple valve is being fed from the loader valve on the left side in the photos, and the "used" hydraulic fluid exits the grapple valve from the right side of the valve, where it "tees" into the return line from the loader valve.......

All the plugs, lines, grapple, and grapple valve cost around $1,000 (!!!!!!)