Adding ROPS to older tractors?

[deepNdirt]

This is my outlook on aftermarket ROPE kits, a Kit is just that, Via ( Kit ) one size does not fit all, IMO kits of any type are design for the DIY'rs, a kit is a generic form of a design, change out some hardware or simply ad a couple other parts/pc's for the sake of it fitting a few other applications and wala! you have a kit,
again this is only IMO , I put more faith in custom fabricators, By this I mean a welder/Fabricator/machinist, Not just a person who can re-weld the lawn mower deck back together, But someone who knows how to build & fabricate something out of steel and custom fit it to strengthen the weak points of my tractor or any other type of machinery,
Yes! the ROPS manufactures have done a bit of research and have come up with the technology to build a standardize (OSHA approved) ROPS, but again these are of a generic design, What might work well on one make tractor might not work so well on another, but on the other hand if it safed a life then I suppose it has done its job well,:thumbsup:

Example: --> In my business (Interior trim and custom cabinets), I talk with folks all the time about weighing out the cost of Box cabinets verses custom built ones, and usually it comes down to a time frame of if they can Waite for custom cabinets to be built or need to go ahead and get the ROPS I mean Box cabinets installed, Most folks prefer not wanting the Box style cabinets installed in their homes, although a box cabinet can be installed to look great from the outside but the structure design is still not there as would be in a custom built all wood custom fitted cabinet....................................

I'm sure any one of you can think back of things you would have rather of had being better, then having to settle with what you decided on, be it either reason for cost or time saved
My point is--- Kits are to save Time,,, and sure the ROPE Kits will save life's,
but for My Money I'd just assume have custom built & custom fitted,
Thank you very much

 

[Farmwithjunk]

While custom built ROPS structure MAY protect the operator, they are NOT OSHA certified. That is a deal killer for anyone with employees on the tractor, and also the deal killer as far as INSURANCE coverage is concerned. Most good fab shops won't touch a ROPS structure due to liability purposes. The difference is, no one will sue you if your can of Campbells soup gets a dent while inside the custom built cabinet, but relatives of someone seriously injured while under a home-made ROPS WILL. All the "kits" I've seen are NOT "one size fits all", but rather various kits that are offered for specific tractors. (ie, one kit that fits Ford and MF utilities, another kit that fits various Deere's, ect) Every "kit" ROPS I've seen IS OSHA certified, as they have the luxury of volume sales to afford the cost of certification.


Also worth mentioning, various state universities, especially land grant universities with significant AG programs will usually offer a retrofit ROPS program where they pick up part of the tab to make old tractors safer. Univ of Ky School of Agriculture was running a similar program last time I checked.

 

[eastexan]

The tractor I have now (Case/IH), is the first I've had that came equipped with ROPS/FOPS. It was owned by the state/county for mowing ROW.
But the ROPS has its own badge plate with the Manufacturer Name, Date, S/N, OSHA spec, and other info.

I am curious if all ROPS have to have this info, or only the ones used in public areas, (e.g. roadside maintenance, parks, etc.).

 

[kco]

yep.. most of the tractor deaths I see locally are from guys that have been driving their machine for 30-40 years, know it inside and out, and get caught in a bad spot.. like trailering. In fact.. I was loading my 850 with loader 2 days ago.. luckilly it was on my flat bed. as I was crawling up, one front tire was riding the edge of a ramp, while the other tire was centered ont he other ramp. well.. there was a soft spot in the dirt on the ramp that I was riding the edge and it rolled, I stomped at the clutch and brake in panic mode, missed the clutch the first time, but hit the left brake which actually scootched me left, and prevented the ramp from going completely over and wedged the tire an inch more onto it.. it was still rolled up.. 2nd stab at the clutch stopped me and I rolled back down and reset that ramp. had that been on my deckover and not my lowboy.. where the ramp rolled near the top.. that could have been much different.

wow.. removing rops and seatbelt from a machine with one. maybee if the worst happens and the machine isn't messed up, someone else can buy it from the estate and put the rops back on it


soundguy

Hmmm...thanks for the good wishes soundguy. The ROPS is with the implements and the base and two pins and two bolts to install it are still on the tractor. I'll show my wife how to install it so she can get full value when she sells it.

"most of the tractor deaths I've seen locally...." Really? I'm 68, grew up and lived in farming districts of Manitoba, Alberta and BC all my life and never heard of a local rollover death, and I do follow the news. The one tractor rollover and death I am familiar with is that of Merle Watson in North Carolina in 1985. He's the son of legendary bluegrass artist Doc Watson and I'd seen their concerts a couple of times. I've seen Doc Watson concerts since, but it did take a while before he started touring again.

One serious tractor accident I do have close personal experience with was in 1956 or 1957 when a friend lost a leg while dismounting an old John Deere and his pant leg got got in the flywheel. Those old machines certainly were more hazardous than now and I'm grateful for safety improvements they've made. The reason I know the date for this accident is because it is the year the film "Reach for the Sky" was made about Douglas Bader, the British WWII ace with two artificial legs. My friend was in Air Cadets (as were most of us). Douglas Bader somehow heard of the accident (I suppose through the Air Cadet organisation) and wrote my friend a letter giving him encouragement. A nice gesture.

I thought my ROPS post might draw some flak and that's fine. I just want the freedom to make personal choices where appropriate. I realise it is different when working for a company where all safety rules must be followed. It makes sense because there are varying degrees of experience and attitude, and bad choices put others at risk.

We all live with risk to varying degrees. In my lineman days we did hand contact hotwork from poles with just rubber gloves. Sleeves and a diving board (4' platform hung on pole to stand on to help block ground path) were required on deadend and transformer poles. I imagine that is illegal now and work is done only from insulated bucket trucks. That makes perfect sense.

I spent most of my life hiking and over 10 years doing serious mountain climbing in the Canadian Rockies. Much of that was unroped because you did not have time to protect the entire route. Other times a rope increases the danger such as on downward sloping, scree-covered ledges that can't be protected. If you are roped and one partner falls, you both die. After my main partner retired I continued to climb with half of the climbs being multi-day solo climbs. I estimate I backed-off at least 25% of the climbs, either giving up completely or coming back in better conditions. That's risk management and knowing and accepting limits.

I still hike alone(except for my dog Lucy). I tried a hiking club when I moved here but did not like the schedules and inflexibility. There is also an intense sense of peace that comes from being completely alone in a remote area. It may catch up with me, but it is worth the risk. I minimize the risk by taking enough food and clothes to spend the night, even for hikes into the hills on summer days directly behind our place.

We all have different views and priorities. A couple of years ago while preparing for a 3 day trip east of here (in the Kootenays south of Revelstoke), my wife said "Leave Lucy at home". We laughed and Lucy came. We both know Lucy's priorities are similar to mine. That season Lucy and I saw 27 bears(only one grizzly). I still think the most dangerous part is the drive out there.

In another period of my life we had horses. I considered that more dangerous than any other activity--you don't have complete control. Who knows what that 1/2 ton of muscle will do when the grouse takes off from the undergrowth? In winter I minimized risk by riding bareback. Besides it is warmer. I had two occasions where the horse fell and I found myself standing beside him holding the reins-much like the OP with his tractor roll. I'm sure having no saddle decreased the risk. However, in an autumn incident with a saddle, my thoroughbred and I fell when we hit a greasy patch under some leaves while cantering on a gentle sideslope. We slid together with my leg under him for about 6'. He was up in a flash and bolted. Luckily my foot came out of the stirrup. I found him about 1/2 mile further along.

I'm not disdainful of safety and don't enjoy danger. I realise others' views and priorities are different and respect that. I hope to live many more years doing my best to evaluate situations and die from something other than rolling my tractor. A heart attack while driving or maintaining it would be fine.

 

[JC-jetro]

Good read KCO Thanks for sharing. At the end of the day we're all individuals and have free will. We need to always be mindful of dangers surrounding us every day, but what is the alternative ... quit and die... Don't think so. I do rock climb with my boys and absoloutley love it but I either belay them or they belay me.. like that rope anywhere it makes sense.

JC,

 

[deepNdirt]

While custom built ROPS structure MAY protect the operator, they are NOT OSHA certified. That is a deal killer for anyone with employees on the tractor, and also the deal killer as far as INSURANCE coverage is concerned. Most good fab shops won't touch a ROPS structure due to liability purposes. The difference is, no one will sue you if your can of Campbells soup gets a dent while inside the custom built cabinet, but relatives of someone seriously injured while under a home-made ROPS WILL. All the "kits" I've seen are NOT "one size fits all", but rather various kits that are offered for specific tractors. (ie, one kit that fits Ford and MF utilities, another kit that fits various Deere's, ect) Every "kit" ROPS I've seen IS OSHA certified, as they have the luxury of volume sales to afford the cost of certification.


Also worth mentioning, various state universities, especially land grant universities with significant AG programs will usually offer a retrofit ROPS program where they pick up part of the tab to make old tractors safer. Univ of Ky School of Agriculture was running a similar program last time I checked.

This topic has certainly been around the block more than a few times, OSHA uses a minimum safety standards, or at least enforces it that way, I'm sure they would rather see Maximum safety rather than marginal safety standards, and whether ROPS manufactures builds on marginal safety or maximum I truly wouldn't know, what i do know and have observed is the Kit ROPS are built of the same style with one continuous pc with bends and curves, no gusset bracings etc, So in theory the ROPS rely solely on the form of attachment to the tractor, I'm sure we can all agree not ll tractors are built the same, right! so why would one style of ROPE be considered safe on any given style of tractor?
we can go on all day about OSHA approved safety and Liability and most will come to the same -ol -conclusion , ( if OSHA backs it up then it WILL save my life ) if anyone has that much confident in OSHA then I must say their a fool,
The OP asked if would be better off Buying a marketed kit or having one Built?
and I answered with MHO, All you folks who are on the side of OSHA I'm certainly glade you have the comfort of knowing you will live through such a Rollover by having a approved ROPS,:thumbsup: Not to mention you won't be sued by the family of any person who was employed and killed during such a tragic happening, as for myself I would have confidence knowing the tractor I put an employ on having a strong built custom fitted ROPS will live and walk away from such an incident, I would of course enforce wearing a seatbelt while operating tractor,
the problem with todays society is too many folks put their trust in the Gov. but the proofs in the pudding,
good day

 

[Short Game]

Until they outlaw old tractors with no ROPS, then anything is better than nothing. And for old tractors, nothing must be good enough?

Because I have so much low hanging stuff to clear, mine stays folded down. I'd never finish a mow if I had to put it up and down every time it was in the way. My new tractor's roll bar is a half a foot higher than my old one's roof. It grabs branches and smacks me in the back of the head with them. They grab my earphones off my head. I'm shortening my roll bar and adding sweeps and a roof (coostum, mon).

How many of yous guys puts on your seat belt every time?

The only rollover death I know about locally (many years ago) was when a Cat in the woods rolled. The operator jumped (or was thrown) right where the track came back down. They didn't find him until they righted the tractor.

 

[Gedfish]

I'm on the workplace health and safety committee at work, and it's almost getting to the stage where you can't even breathe without filling out a form. Seems every employer is going nuts about the prospect of being sued. However, the data around rollovers is just stark: the numbers don't lie. A complient ROPS properly used and fitted with a belt gives you a much better chance of surviving your tractor days. Over here, all ROPS must carry certification to to prove they have been tested so they will perform on a matched tractor. Am I too trusting ..? I hope the trust is never put to the test. And yes - I always wear a belt. Cheers, Ged

 

[Farmwithjunk]

This topic has certainly been around the block more than a few times, OSHA uses a minimum safety standards, or at least enforces it that way, I'm sure they would rather see Maximum safety rather than marginal safety standards, and whether ROPS manufactures builds on marginal safety or maximum I truly wouldn't know, what i do know and have observed is the Kit ROPS are built of the same style with one continuous pc with bends and curves, no gusset bracings etc, So in theory the ROPS rely solely on the form of attachment to the tractor, I'm sure we can all agree not ll tractors are built the same, right! so why would one style of ROPE be considered safe on any given style of tractor?
we can go on all day about OSHA approved safety and Liability and most will come to the same -ol -conclusion , ( if OSHA backs it up then it WILL save my life ) if anyone has that much confident in OSHA then I must say their a fool,
The OP asked if would be better off Buying a marketed kit or having one Built?
and I answered with MHO, All you folks who are on the side of OSHA I'm certainly glade you have the comfort of knowing you will live through such a Rollover by having a approved ROPS,:thumbsup: Not to mention you won't be sued by the family of any person who was employed and killed during such a tragic happening, as for myself I would have confidence knowing the tractor I put an employ on having a strong built custom fitted ROPS will live and walk away from such an incident, I would of course enforce wearing a seatbelt while operating tractor,
the problem with todays society is too many folks put their trust in the Gov. but the proofs in the pudding,
good day

The point is, as you obviously missed completely, a home made, non certified ROPS would mean your tractor would have to remain PARKED, with NO OPERATOR ALLOWED, in cases where an employee should be the operator, lest you be operating ILLEGALLY. Same premise applies in cases where an insurance company was to peruse your equipment (as mine is AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR) . They couldn't care a flippin' bit just how much faith you put in your own design. I've seen some of the most overbuilt "ROPS structures" fold up like a cheap lawn chair when put to the test, where a well engineered APPROVED ROPS has done it's job as it was intended to. Just because you've only seen a limited number of basic "kits", that doesn't mean they're less than capable, nor does it mean there aren't adequate ROPS structures available from aftermarket sources. Why would one style of rops be considered adequate on every type of tractor? Quite simply, they aren't "the same on every tractor". That assumption on your part is totally incorrect and misleading to those who don't know the difference. And they must be TESTED and test results validated before receiving certification, not just some "theory" as you propose. Weight of tractor, all possible angle of roll-over, as well as mounting point integrity are ALL considered in the engineering and testing of a certified ROPS structure. And while we're at it, Let's see hard test data on YOUR ROPS design....Not just a "theory" from someone who may mean well, but is otherwise most likely unqualified to make a judgement that has someone's life in the balance........

 

[eastexan]

Well said, Ged. :thumbsup: