Adjust timing
- Thread starter ChinaDoll
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bugstruck
Platinum Member
ChinaDoll, Haven't a clue on that engine. Here's what I do know. If it's running, mark the distributor cap or the base and reference a point. Loosen the distribotor bolt just enough to turn the distributor by hand with some resistance. Often you can hear the correct timing come and go as you advance and ****** the distributor either side of correct. Make sure the point gap (dwell) is correct before you start this process. This techinque is far from science but it gets you roughly close. The scientific way, on most all gas engines, is to put a timing gun on it, intercept (read) the number one cylinder, and put the crank balancer mark on the correct degree scale mark at idle or the prescribed timing RPM. Yours may or may not be that straight forward.
HTH
HTH
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Can someone tell me how to adjust the timing on a y385 engine? Help needed, thanks. )</font>
I think you should post your question in the Chinese tractor forum further down on the disscussion main index. It's possible that someone there does not consult this category but could help you answer the question. Is that a Jinma model? John
I think you should post your question in the Chinese tractor forum further down on the disscussion main index. It's possible that someone there does not consult this category but could help you answer the question. Is that a Jinma model? John
JANDCBURKE
New member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Messages
- 6
am i missing something, isn't the term timing referring to "ignition timing?" No ignition timing on a diesel considering there is no ignition system save for the glow plugs on initial startup. adjusting fuel injection pump would probably lower or increase fuel amount but not the time the fuel is delivered(thats up to the valves opening as per the cam), did i miss something or is this a late april fools??
Wayne_Freeman
Gold Member
Here is a link that talks about changing the injector pump and setting the timing. http://johnstractor.homestead.com/InjPumpInstall.html
It sounds to me like you just want to tweak it a little bit?
It sounds to me like you just want to tweak it a little bit?
ToolManRick
Silver Member
ChinaDoll, I've never adjusted the timing on mine yet but I can tell you the basics as in the Y385 manual I have.
The timing is 16 degrees + - 1 degree before TDC.
Remove the pipe for number 1 cylinder (the one in front) on the injector and rotate the crankshaft. REMEMBER !! It's a diesel and can start up! If your engine has a decompression lever then USE IT to remove the compression on the engine and lessen the chance of it starting. Okay, that said... SLOWLY rotate the crankshaft and observer the fuel level in the hole where you took off #1 cylinder on the injector. As soon as you see it begin to rise stop turning the crank and observe the timing mark on the flywheel (have to remove the inspection cover, if it has a FEL attached this can be a problem because most FEL bolt on over the inspection hole) or there may a mark on the front pully. My engine has a little pointer threaded into the engine block at TDC behind the bottim pully. Adjust accordingly by loosening bolts in the slotted holes and rotating the injection pump.
Unless you've had work done on the engine or there has been a failure of a component it really shouldn't be necessary to adjust the timing. However, engine with 500 hours on it should be check for it's timing.
Hope this is helpful and good luck to you.
The timing is 16 degrees + - 1 degree before TDC.
Remove the pipe for number 1 cylinder (the one in front) on the injector and rotate the crankshaft. REMEMBER !! It's a diesel and can start up! If your engine has a decompression lever then USE IT to remove the compression on the engine and lessen the chance of it starting. Okay, that said... SLOWLY rotate the crankshaft and observer the fuel level in the hole where you took off #1 cylinder on the injector. As soon as you see it begin to rise stop turning the crank and observe the timing mark on the flywheel (have to remove the inspection cover, if it has a FEL attached this can be a problem because most FEL bolt on over the inspection hole) or there may a mark on the front pully. My engine has a little pointer threaded into the engine block at TDC behind the bottim pully. Adjust accordingly by loosening bolts in the slotted holes and rotating the injection pump.
Unless you've had work done on the engine or there has been a failure of a component it really shouldn't be necessary to adjust the timing. However, engine with 500 hours on it should be check for it's timing.
Hope this is helpful and good luck to you.
greg_g
Super Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
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- 6,126
- Location
- Western Kentucky
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- JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket
Let's clear something up here first. There are technically two basic timing procedures inherent to (non-electronic) diesel engines; valve timing, and injection pump timing. Valve timing is more commonly referred to as valve lash adjustment. Whereas the timing chain and camshaft do the basic job of opening and closing valves in the correct sequence, the valve lash adjustment essentially "fine tunes" the job by regulating lift and duration. Lift, as in how far a valve actually opens. Duration, as in how long a valve actually stays open.
Assuming good valve timing, injection pump timing then regulates just when there is enough fuel pressure to cause an injector to release the fuel spray at the correct time during the compression stroke.
Valve timing first, then injection pump timing.
//greg//
Assuming good valve timing, injection pump timing then regulates just when there is enough fuel pressure to cause an injector to release the fuel spray at the correct time during the compression stroke.
Valve timing first, then injection pump timing.
//greg//
JINMA224XR
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2005
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- 464
- Location
- Alabama Gulf Coast
- Tractor
- 2004 JINMA 224XR, (1990 SHINNIU 254/sold)
<font color="blue">Let's clear something up here first. There are technically two basic timing procedures inherent to (non-electronic) diesel engines; valve timing, and injection pump timing. </font>
Hey Greg,
Thanks for getting this thread straightened out before, Chris got us to adjust the timing on our "Gasoline Engines". /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
At least we have a starting point now to analyze what the original poster is wanting to get accomplished.
Heading out to do more landscaping. It's starting to get warm down here and time for SunScreen Application.
Have a nice day,
Joe
PS, Not to Hyjack this Thread, but wouldn't it be something if that fellow got the 354 Kama for 6K. If he did,, I for one will be sick, because I didn't get it before him. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Wouldn't that be considered Theft and be against the Law? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Hey Greg,
Thanks for getting this thread straightened out before, Chris got us to adjust the timing on our "Gasoline Engines". /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
At least we have a starting point now to analyze what the original poster is wanting to get accomplished.
Heading out to do more landscaping. It's starting to get warm down here and time for SunScreen Application.
Have a nice day,
Joe
PS, Not to Hyjack this Thread, but wouldn't it be something if that fellow got the 354 Kama for 6K. If he did,, I for one will be sick, because I didn't get it before him. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Wouldn't that be considered Theft and be against the Law? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
When adjusting the injection timing, I have a few suggestions.
1 Remove the radiator. It's simple to do, drain it into a bucket, remove two nuts on the bottom, pull the retaining clip at the top, remove a couple clamps and it's off.
2 Spend some time cleaning up the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley. Maybe wipe some white or yellow paint into the marks with a paper towel or cloth.
3 Its important that the compression release is on any time the crank is rotated during maintenance so the engine doesn't fire unexpectedly. Use a piece of pipe a about 1 1/2 or 2 feet long on the ratchet handle to turn the crank pulley. It's not hard to turn the pulley but the long handle will give you a great deal of control and accuracy when turning it. A couple degrees of pulley rotation will be a few inches at the end of the pipe.
Turn the handle and watch for the fuel to rise in the first fuel port. Once you see it begin to rise, stop and look at the marks. If it's other than 16 degrees (or whatever your manual specifies) , try it a couple more times to make sure you're reading it correctly. Then an only then should you consider changing the timing. If you do need to change the timing, everything is accessible since you've already removed the radiator.
One of the posters in this section mentioned (implied?) that valve lash is the adjustment of valve timing. Actually, valve lash adjustment isn't an adjustment of valve timing, it's the adjustment of the clearance between the cam lobe and the valve stem. This affects how much play is present between the rocker arm and the valve stem. This in conjunction with the height of the cam lobe and the pushrod rocker geometry determines how far the rocker arm opens the valve or in the case of no clearance or an over tigthened adjuster, whether the valve will actually close. The duration of open time of a valve is determined by the width of the cam lobe. While a severely misadjusted valve adjuster will alter duration, it will also beat the valve stem and adjuster screw to pieces. While there is a tiny but insignificant change in timing, valve lash adjustment is not intended to alter valve timing. It’s to maintain the proper clearance between the rocker arm and the valve. As the valve heats up, it lengthens, so some clearance is necessary. If it has too much clearance it’s noisy and will damage the adjusting screw and or valve end. If there is too little clearance as the valve lengthens (from heating), it will cause the valve to remain open and the proper compression pressures won’t be achieved and combustion for that cylinder will fail.
Valve timing is the position of the cam lobes on the cam and their position with respect to the crankshaft. Valve timing is changed by shifting the sprocket or gear on the end of the cam shaft such that the cam opens the valves at the desired time with respect to crankshaft position. This is sometimes called “degreeing a cam”. Depending on the performance desired, the timing can be advanced or retarded. This will result in altering the torque and horsepower production of the engine.
While I haven't personally verified this, I'd be willing to bet that the valve timing on Jinma engines is fixed and keyed at the factory (cam drive gear can’t be shifted).
1 Remove the radiator. It's simple to do, drain it into a bucket, remove two nuts on the bottom, pull the retaining clip at the top, remove a couple clamps and it's off.
2 Spend some time cleaning up the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley. Maybe wipe some white or yellow paint into the marks with a paper towel or cloth.
3 Its important that the compression release is on any time the crank is rotated during maintenance so the engine doesn't fire unexpectedly. Use a piece of pipe a about 1 1/2 or 2 feet long on the ratchet handle to turn the crank pulley. It's not hard to turn the pulley but the long handle will give you a great deal of control and accuracy when turning it. A couple degrees of pulley rotation will be a few inches at the end of the pipe.
Turn the handle and watch for the fuel to rise in the first fuel port. Once you see it begin to rise, stop and look at the marks. If it's other than 16 degrees (or whatever your manual specifies) , try it a couple more times to make sure you're reading it correctly. Then an only then should you consider changing the timing. If you do need to change the timing, everything is accessible since you've already removed the radiator.
One of the posters in this section mentioned (implied?) that valve lash is the adjustment of valve timing. Actually, valve lash adjustment isn't an adjustment of valve timing, it's the adjustment of the clearance between the cam lobe and the valve stem. This affects how much play is present between the rocker arm and the valve stem. This in conjunction with the height of the cam lobe and the pushrod rocker geometry determines how far the rocker arm opens the valve or in the case of no clearance or an over tigthened adjuster, whether the valve will actually close. The duration of open time of a valve is determined by the width of the cam lobe. While a severely misadjusted valve adjuster will alter duration, it will also beat the valve stem and adjuster screw to pieces. While there is a tiny but insignificant change in timing, valve lash adjustment is not intended to alter valve timing. It’s to maintain the proper clearance between the rocker arm and the valve. As the valve heats up, it lengthens, so some clearance is necessary. If it has too much clearance it’s noisy and will damage the adjusting screw and or valve end. If there is too little clearance as the valve lengthens (from heating), it will cause the valve to remain open and the proper compression pressures won’t be achieved and combustion for that cylinder will fail.
Valve timing is the position of the cam lobes on the cam and their position with respect to the crankshaft. Valve timing is changed by shifting the sprocket or gear on the end of the cam shaft such that the cam opens the valves at the desired time with respect to crankshaft position. This is sometimes called “degreeing a cam”. Depending on the performance desired, the timing can be advanced or retarded. This will result in altering the torque and horsepower production of the engine.
While I haven't personally verified this, I'd be willing to bet that the valve timing on Jinma engines is fixed and keyed at the factory (cam drive gear can’t be shifted).
