Advice for burning/clearing cattails

[bcp]

I was thinking of something like this, not your heavy hedge trimmer with extensions. Either wading or a stable standing while floating position.



Or you could float just the cutter, like he did with one made from a trolling motor, it looks like.



Bruce

 

[Superduper]

I was thinking of something like this, not your heavy hedge trimmer with extensions. Either wading or a stable standing while floating position.

View attachment 486644

Or you could float just the cutter, like he did with one made from a trolling motor, it looks like.

View attachment 486645

Bruce

Bruce, it's really hard to understand the challenge unless you actually experience it. It's far more difficult than it looks like it would be. If you look at my photos, there must be 1/2 a million stalks. The brush cutter would only be able to cut a few at a time. The articulating hedge trimmer does cut well and I think it would cut far faster than the brush cutter blade, but as soon as you cut a few, they topple over and spoils the area making it mandatory to rake up because the shaft (not the cutting part) will get caught and snagged on the floating blades. At that point, there's no point to continue until you go get a rake and pull them up onto shore, and stack them so that you have a clear path to cut more. It's very tedious and saps the crap out of you faster than you know. As for the second picture of the guy standing in the pond. Where he is standing would be at least 5 feet deep in my pond. The only thing above water would be my hair. I estimate I have about 450' of shoreline and the cattails probably average 15 feet swath. That would come to about 7000 square feet of tightly packed rush with the cut portions about 5-8 feet long. The cattails in that old fellas pond are all new growth. Those are more supple and easier to cut than the mature dried ones I have. Because he has all new growth, that sort of tells me that his pond has been cleared before other wise the old stuff will remain and the new stuff will be interspersed with the old.

 

[bcp]

I've been around cattails all my life, but never had to remove or manage them. I'm just brainstorming ideas, thinking of what I would try if I had a pond full.

Maybe the first cutting in late summer and fall, as mentioned in the link, would be easier if all old material was burned the winter before.

Bruce

 

[bcp]

Another thought-let your tractor do the work.

There are long, wheeled, pto pumps that are backed into ponds for pump irrigation. This video shows the basic idea, and I've seen them much smaller (but just as long).

Crisafulli Flood Pump - YouTube

Now imagine a brush hog/rotary cutter on the far end instead of a water pump. Probably a sickle bar cutter would be better underwater. Back it in, pull it out, and a wide swath of cattails are now cut off underwater.

If some company makes a thing like this, I haven't found it yet, just boat mounted sickle bars.

Bruce

 

[Argonne]

Years ago we had a company come in and do a proscribed burn on a wetland area. When the burn line reached the cattail area, the fire intensified by orders of magnitude. It seriously looked like a bleve with a mountain of black smoke for about a minute.

As for equipment to tackle the problem, you might look at a used McConnel Swingtrim, assuming you have a suitable host tractor. The Swingtrim will cut under water and has impressive reach.

 

[Superduper]

Maybe the first cutting in late summer and fall, as mentioned in the link, would be easier if all old material was burned the winter before.
Bruce

Yes, absolutely. When the old material is gone, the new stuff is much easier to manage as they only sprout in very shallow water (read: very close to shore). The reason the ones in my pond are so deep is because when I bought the home, we were in a drought and the pond was not very full exposing a lot of the edge. Once they sprout and begin growing, they can tolerate very deep water, as long as some green is above water. Cut them below the waterline and they won't reappear except at the shallow areas. So when our drought ended and our pond started filling up, the shallow growth now became deep water stuff and new growth started spreading on the ever expanding shoreline. So what I need to do now is just get rid of the old stuff, hence the reason for burning. I may wait until winter to burn the old stuff but just thought it would be easier now with the weather mild and the old material nice and dry.

Some folks have commented on the welfare of the fish and frogs. When I bought the place, there were no frogs. Now, the entire shoreline is loaded with frogs of every kind. In my life I never thought frogs of different species would coexist in the same pond since large frogs will eat small frogs. However, this year have seen many many frogs from large bullfrogs, to leopards, greens, and tiny frogs the size of my pinky fingernail. So it would seem my theory was wrong. In any event, in 3 short years, my pond is teeming with frogs from where I saw none before. I really don't think the fish will die by burning the cattails since I once calculated that water volume to be an estimated 420,000 gallons. However, if the the unthinkable happens and the fishes die, I can restock. There's catfish, some bluegills, green sunfish, some minnows, and a few bass (that I never ever saw again after stocking them). If the frogs leave, they will return. However, in it's current state, the cattails have taken over and is way out of control. In fact, from my balcony, I can see water snakes frequently navigating the pond. I made a mistake by letting those cattails get out of hand the first year. At this point, I need to learn from my mistake but any new maintenance plan must first involve removing all of the old material and the only option I see that is practical is burining, drastic as it may seem because each year, the problem has been getting exponentially worse and next year, it will only be doubly worse.

 

[Superduper]

Years ago we had a company come in and do a proscribed burn on a wetland area. When the burn line reached the cattail area, the fire intensified by orders of magnitude. It seriously looked like a bleve with a mountain of black smoke for about a minute.

THANKS for that answer! That's exactly the type of information I was looking for. So from what I understand, the cattail stands have no problem igniting and propagating through the growth once started right? If you recall, did the cattail area in the burn you spoke of look like the photos in my original post, in terms of the scale of how deep the growth goes? From what I experienced with burning the pile of leaves I gathered, it did ignite and burned intensely for only a very short time. But the amount of material still in the pond is tons more.

 

[oosik]

I understand your concern as my small lake has many acres of cattails. Its a rectangle( approximately 1500' x 250') - with a depth of 60' throughout the middle section. The west end has 2+ acres of cattails and the east end has a crescent of 'tails. The extent of the cattails is governed by water depth. They do not move out into water over 12' to 15' deep.

A few comments-

I know of no known method that will permanently eliminate cattails. You can burn, dig, chemically treat - they will still come up the following spring.

Burning may present two problems - your house looks to be pretty close to the pond in that one picture. The residue from burning may kill the fish in the pond. I don't know how well spiny ray fish(bass, catfish, bluegills) tolerate chemical changes in the water. I do know that salmonids (trout types) are quite intolerant.

I had a fire go thru the two acres of cattails on the west end of the lake - it was more like an explosion than a fire. I was standing on the cliffs, on the east end, and the explosion almost knocked me down.

Be very careful if you burn.

BTW - I have an aerial pic of my little lake but still get the "you don't have permission" message. My avatar is a pic of my little lake - taken off the front porch. You can see a part of the crescent of 'tails on the east end and the open water, cliffs etc.

 

[Argonne]

So from what I understand, the cattail stands have no problem igniting and propagating through the growth once started right?

Yes, it was almost explosive. I just found several videos on Youtube on cattail controlled burns that confirm my experience. HERE is one of them.

I think it's a forgone conclusion that you will have a lot of matter left in your pond after a burn, and beyond paying someone with a Gradall to scrape it out, I don't know what you would do about that. Ponds are beautiful, but I'm finding out that owning one can really put your ingenuity (and wallet) to the test.

 

[tractchores]

One thing you might try is to lower the water before winter, then cut them to the ice level (if the ice is thick enough you might be able to use a tractor or at least a self propelled brush cutter. Those should grind the material to avoid raking. Then in spring the water level should be above the cuts limiting your problem to the easily controlled shore area. If you burn you may have a PH issue in the water (ash makes it alkaline), depending on amounts it could cause issues for a long time and could be expensive to correct.

Looks like a nice pond!