Advice for burning/clearing cattails

[Superduper]

Hi folks, been away for a long long time, as life has taken many unforeseen and interesting path the past few years.

Anyhow, I moved into a new home about 3 years ago, it came with a pond which has been a source of enjoyment for me. At the time, there were a few cattails but you could access and approach the pond on virtually every side except one. At the time, it never occurred to me that cattails needed maintenance so I just enjoyed and fished the pond. But the cattails grew. And they grew. Fast forward to this year, it got to the point where I could no longer access the pond anymore. The cattails grew a barrier over 10 feet deep. Not knowing how to get rid of them, I purchased at huge expense, a echo setup which included a long pole power head and an articulating hedge trimmer attachment and (2) 3' extensions. Turns out part of that purchae was wasted since I discovered that I am simply not strong enough to wield the assembly with 2 extensions. Wading in as far as I could with knee high rubber boots, I cut what I could but boy, that required physical exertion beyond what I am really capable of anymore. I did make a dent after 3 tries and last week, burned the piles of dried cattails after consolidating them into 1 huge pile. This was my first attempt to burn anything and boy, after lighting it up, it burned fast and hot. Within just a few short minutes, the whole pile (tall as myself and around 10' around) was nothing but ash, and then the circumference began to creep. Luckily I was able to extinguish them with just a sprinkling can. The field is mowed and much is still green so I don't think I'll ignite a wildfire or anything like that but the fear did cross my mind.

I have come to the conclusion that physically, I'm just not capable of trimming them all, and there will always be some that I can not reach due to how far they extend into the pond. Furthermore, the amount of dried fronds that I'll have to rake and pile is far more than I thought it would be, and much more work than I can handle. I have a plan.... I'll use roundup next year on any new growth to try to keep them under control, perhaps eventually eradicate them. Problem is that the new will grow between the old dried leaves which protects them and prevents me from getting access to them.

Here is my question: I had to burn all the leaves that I cut as there is simply far too much to do anything else with them. Since they are going to be burned anyhow, and it takes so much work to cut them down, why not just burn them all right now where they stand while they are all in a fairly dried state. I figure that the only concern might be the perimeter of the pond but if I water down the area, maybe 3' around the pond, do you think this will be safe? I do have a small propane powered blow torch. Lighting a pile of dried leaves stacked on the ground is one thing. Igniting free standing leaves might be another? Can anyone with experience burning fields share some insight into whether you think this might work? I have zero experience (other than that one 5-minute burn) and don't want to make a mistake.

Here are some pictures of my pond. On one side, I cleared as much as I could and those 3 days it took to clear the shore nearly killed me. I know this is a long post but I wanted to include as much information as I could think of. Thanks in advance.

 

[treemuncher]

DO NOT use Roundup over water. You will kill all of your fish. There is a specific chemical that you can use on water. If I remember correctly it is called Rodeo and that is what USFWS uses.

Cattails spread fast at the roots if I remember correctly. Unless you chemically burn them, I don't see burning as an effective control method. Chemical treatment is likely the easiest option. Otherwise, a long reach excavator would be the other option to remove and keep them from popping back up. The excavator route is what my in-laws did with there pond and that solved the problem....for now.

 

[bcp]

I think they are somewhat depth sensitive, so a steeper slope will have a narrower band of cattails.

The roots are edible. Spread a rumor that a person can get high if eating enough roots and see how fast they disappear.

Bruce

 

[daschluck]

I know exactly what you are saying. I had a very similar experience. I bought rakes of all kinds, weed wacked what I could reach, but ultimately the only thing that really lasts (not forever but quite a while) is to spray them. As treemuncher said, you have to use the right chemicals. They are expensive but they do work. You will also need to add a surfactant to you chemical to kill the cat tails. They have a waxy coating that the surfactant will help to penetrate. What I did was wait until my pond froze over and in the winter I burned the dried up cat tails at that time. Then in spring did my spraying. Not sure if that is an option for you. Once cleaned up, the key is to stay on top of them. Cut or spray when there are not that many. You are right though, it's a job. Good luck.

 

[Superduper]

OK, from what I read, it's not the active ingredient in roundup (glyphosate) that is the problem, it is the surfactants, that is not good for specifically amphibians. The pond safe stuff uses the same vegetation killer (glyphosate) but the surfactant is different. Frankly, while I would love to keep the froggies happy but with what is currently happening with the pond, even if all the frogs and fishes are killed, in the process, it will still need to be done, otherwise, the pond is totally useless to me and a huge eyesore. The pond can be restocked but last time I spoke to the guy at the the fish farm (that sells fish stock), he told me that weed killer is fine around the pond. I don't want to start over but where we currently are at the moment, something drastic has to be done to regain control. Hopefully once the dry stuff are eradicated, we can concentrate on the fresh growth.

Anyhow, the question was in regards to burning the cattail rushes where they stand. Anyone can share some experience or advice?

Daschluck; Question: when you burned your stands in the winter, did they ignite easy in the cold weather and did the burn proprogate through the rushes or did you need to continue to provide a fuel source? Last year, we had a mild winter and while the pond looked to froze, I don't trust going anywhere over the water surface, as I suspect it's only glass thin. I just thought to burn them now while weather is good rather than trying to ignite the stands in 10 degree weather which I'm thinking might not be so easy. Additionally, as the rushes expand from 10 to 20 feet into the water, I'm only able to ignite the perimeter so I need the fire to spread to the rest of the leaves without me having to continually supply the fuel, which I won't be able to reach that far.

 

[bcp]

Some interesting ideas here:

Cornell Cooperative Extension | Controlling Cattails

I like the idea of using a gas-powered brush cutter from a boat or raft, cutting them underwater.

Bruce

 

[Deere Dude]

What about a weedburner with a 300,000 bTU head. That will have a pretty good reach and very hot. Possibly throw a half gallon of diesel into the brush and light it up. Maybe use a backpack sprayer with a 20' range with the diesel.

Redirect Notice

 

[Creamer]

I was thinking of the spraying a mist of diesel over them and lighting them to get rid of the tops now and then in the spring you can spray the new growth.

I used to have cattails in my pond but I built a treehouse and thatched the roof with them and they never grew back. After a few years they broke down as a roof and I didn't have more to replace them with so I created my own problem.

 

[Superduper]

Some interesting ideas here:

Cornell Cooperative Extension | Controlling Cattails

I like the idea of using a gas-powered brush cutter from a boat or raft, cutting them underwater.

Bruce

I did do some research earlier this year.

Hand pulling would be akin to trying to empty a swimming pool one cup at a time, while someone at the other end of the pool is dumping a cup of water into the pond. I could work forever and not make a dent. Furthermore, it is easier said than done. I did try pulling with zero luck. They simply won't come out without great force at which time, the leaves generally snap suddenly with me falling backwards.

Mowing only works on the shoreline where the cattails are not. The few that do sprout up gets cut down but it's the 10' tall ones in the water that I can't get to.

Dredging or backhoe work is not an option. First I have neither and cost would be prohibitive to hire. But frankly, because these ponds are clay lined, backhoe-ing the banks will most certainly compromise the pond liner/seal and damage it irreparably.

Cutting them below waterline on a boat might be something I could try, if only I could even launch my row boat through 15 feet of cattail rushes. But even then, I can tell you that I tried trimming them with the gas powered hedge trimmer while standing on shore, and it's barely manageable. I already know that trying to do the same while sitting on the boat is impossible to do safely. Standing... forget it. The one time I tried to stand on our little boat... well let's just say I learned really fast "don't do that." That was without trying to balance a gas powered cutting attachment.

Chemical herbicides seem to be the easiest solution but with the cattail blades now an impenetrable 10-20 feet deep, and the new growth constantly nesting within the safety confines protected by the dried stuff, it's not a solution that is practical unless the dried stuff is first eradicated, hence the desire to employ a complete burn of the current growth. Let's just say that I don't want to employ chemical means, especially since I know I have fish in the pond, but at this point, I've already tried or ruled out the other options and I've given up with the other mechanical options.

 

[2458n]

burning and leaving the trash on the pond will kill all your fish in the spring. Get a good magazine and see what the companies that sell fish for restocking use. In northwest Ohio the additional problem is people use these small ponds for their drinking water. Call Defiance Ohio farm services and see what they say.

 

[bcp]

I was thinking of something like this, not your heavy hedge trimmer with extensions. Either wading or a stable standing while floating position.



Or you could float just the cutter, like he did with one made from a trolling motor, it looks like.



Bruce

 

[Superduper]

I was thinking of something like this, not your heavy hedge trimmer with extensions. Either wading or a stable standing while floating position.

View attachment 486644

Or you could float just the cutter, like he did with one made from a trolling motor, it looks like.

View attachment 486645

Bruce

Bruce, it's really hard to understand the challenge unless you actually experience it. It's far more difficult than it looks like it would be. If you look at my photos, there must be 1/2 a million stalks. The brush cutter would only be able to cut a few at a time. The articulating hedge trimmer does cut well and I think it would cut far faster than the brush cutter blade, but as soon as you cut a few, they topple over and spoils the area making it mandatory to rake up because the shaft (not the cutting part) will get caught and snagged on the floating blades. At that point, there's no point to continue until you go get a rake and pull them up onto shore, and stack them so that you have a clear path to cut more. It's very tedious and saps the crap out of you faster than you know. As for the second picture of the guy standing in the pond. Where he is standing would be at least 5 feet deep in my pond. The only thing above water would be my hair. I estimate I have about 450' of shoreline and the cattails probably average 15 feet swath. That would come to about 7000 square feet of tightly packed rush with the cut portions about 5-8 feet long. The cattails in that old fellas pond are all new growth. Those are more supple and easier to cut than the mature dried ones I have. Because he has all new growth, that sort of tells me that his pond has been cleared before other wise the old stuff will remain and the new stuff will be interspersed with the old.

 

[bcp]

I've been around cattails all my life, but never had to remove or manage them. I'm just brainstorming ideas, thinking of what I would try if I had a pond full.

Maybe the first cutting in late summer and fall, as mentioned in the link, would be easier if all old material was burned the winter before.

Bruce

 

[bcp]

Another thought-let your tractor do the work.

There are long, wheeled, pto pumps that are backed into ponds for pump irrigation. This video shows the basic idea, and I've seen them much smaller (but just as long).

Crisafulli Flood Pump - YouTube

Now imagine a brush hog/rotary cutter on the far end instead of a water pump. Probably a sickle bar cutter would be better underwater. Back it in, pull it out, and a wide swath of cattails are now cut off underwater.

If some company makes a thing like this, I haven't found it yet, just boat mounted sickle bars.

Bruce

 

[Argonne]

Years ago we had a company come in and do a proscribed burn on a wetland area. When the burn line reached the cattail area, the fire intensified by orders of magnitude. It seriously looked like a bleve with a mountain of black smoke for about a minute.

As for equipment to tackle the problem, you might look at a used McConnel Swingtrim, assuming you have a suitable host tractor. The Swingtrim will cut under water and has impressive reach.

 

[Superduper]

Maybe the first cutting in late summer and fall, as mentioned in the link, would be easier if all old material was burned the winter before.
Bruce

Yes, absolutely. When the old material is gone, the new stuff is much easier to manage as they only sprout in very shallow water (read: very close to shore). The reason the ones in my pond are so deep is because when I bought the home, we were in a drought and the pond was not very full exposing a lot of the edge. Once they sprout and begin growing, they can tolerate very deep water, as long as some green is above water. Cut them below the waterline and they won't reappear except at the shallow areas. So when our drought ended and our pond started filling up, the shallow growth now became deep water stuff and new growth started spreading on the ever expanding shoreline. So what I need to do now is just get rid of the old stuff, hence the reason for burning. I may wait until winter to burn the old stuff but just thought it would be easier now with the weather mild and the old material nice and dry.

Some folks have commented on the welfare of the fish and frogs. When I bought the place, there were no frogs. Now, the entire shoreline is loaded with frogs of every kind. In my life I never thought frogs of different species would coexist in the same pond since large frogs will eat small frogs. However, this year have seen many many frogs from large bullfrogs, to leopards, greens, and tiny frogs the size of my pinky fingernail. So it would seem my theory was wrong. In any event, in 3 short years, my pond is teeming with frogs from where I saw none before. I really don't think the fish will die by burning the cattails since I once calculated that water volume to be an estimated 420,000 gallons. However, if the the unthinkable happens and the fishes die, I can restock. There's catfish, some bluegills, green sunfish, some minnows, and a few bass (that I never ever saw again after stocking them). If the frogs leave, they will return. However, in it's current state, the cattails have taken over and is way out of control. In fact, from my balcony, I can see water snakes frequently navigating the pond. I made a mistake by letting those cattails get out of hand the first year. At this point, I need to learn from my mistake but any new maintenance plan must first involve removing all of the old material and the only option I see that is practical is burining, drastic as it may seem because each year, the problem has been getting exponentially worse and next year, it will only be doubly worse.

 

[Superduper]

Years ago we had a company come in and do a proscribed burn on a wetland area. When the burn line reached the cattail area, the fire intensified by orders of magnitude. It seriously looked like a bleve with a mountain of black smoke for about a minute.

THANKS for that answer! That's exactly the type of information I was looking for. So from what I understand, the cattail stands have no problem igniting and propagating through the growth once started right? If you recall, did the cattail area in the burn you spoke of look like the photos in my original post, in terms of the scale of how deep the growth goes? From what I experienced with burning the pile of leaves I gathered, it did ignite and burned intensely for only a very short time. But the amount of material still in the pond is tons more.

 

[oosik]

I understand your concern as my small lake has many acres of cattails. Its a rectangle( approximately 1500' x 250') - with a depth of 60' throughout the middle section. The west end has 2+ acres of cattails and the east end has a crescent of 'tails. The extent of the cattails is governed by water depth. They do not move out into water over 12' to 15' deep.

A few comments-

I know of no known method that will permanently eliminate cattails. You can burn, dig, chemically treat - they will still come up the following spring.

Burning may present two problems - your house looks to be pretty close to the pond in that one picture. The residue from burning may kill the fish in the pond. I don't know how well spiny ray fish(bass, catfish, bluegills) tolerate chemical changes in the water. I do know that salmonids (trout types) are quite intolerant.

I had a fire go thru the two acres of cattails on the west end of the lake - it was more like an explosion than a fire. I was standing on the cliffs, on the east end, and the explosion almost knocked me down.

Be very careful if you burn.

BTW - I have an aerial pic of my little lake but still get the "you don't have permission" message. My avatar is a pic of my little lake - taken off the front porch. You can see a part of the crescent of 'tails on the east end and the open water, cliffs etc.

 

[Argonne]

So from what I understand, the cattail stands have no problem igniting and propagating through the growth once started right?

Yes, it was almost explosive. I just found several videos on Youtube on cattail controlled burns that confirm my experience. HERE is one of them.

I think it's a forgone conclusion that you will have a lot of matter left in your pond after a burn, and beyond paying someone with a Gradall to scrape it out, I don't know what you would do about that. Ponds are beautiful, but I'm finding out that owning one can really put your ingenuity (and wallet) to the test.

 

[tractchores]

One thing you might try is to lower the water before winter, then cut them to the ice level (if the ice is thick enough you might be able to use a tractor or at least a self propelled brush cutter. Those should grind the material to avoid raking. Then in spring the water level should be above the cuts limiting your problem to the easily controlled shore area. If you burn you may have a PH issue in the water (ash makes it alkaline), depending on amounts it could cause issues for a long time and could be expensive to correct.

Looks like a nice pond!